Cave LE's are too rare: some ideas

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 10:54 AM

Lets start with the facts:

15 hours ago there were somewhat more than 1000 Mouflon

Weighted rarities:
Mouflon: 93
Ambrie: 71
Runton: 63
Flaren: 62

The Mouflon is a creature which should only be obtainable once per person, so if you look at the numbers that means less people got an Ambrie than a Mouflon. And yes, there are always some cheaters who get the event pets on side accounts, but I doubt that can account for the large gap, over 230 Mouflons would have to have been obtained through cheating.

Then there's the Runton, which has a rarity which is already at the level of that of the Flaren, which was released over half a year ago and of which plenty will have died by now, while few Runton will have died.

The fact is these pets are already really rare before the ones on the accounts of 'one day flies' start dying off. These pets are too rare at their release, everyone who is around for a release should be able to easily get an LE pet, it'll get rare when it's retired. Some of you won't believe this but Christmas 2009 pets and Tines were REALLY common when they were released.

Continued from @dio-chan

dio-chan • 15 April 2012 at 11:05 AM

Some of the causes pets are becoming so hard to get:

-shorter release times

-disappearance of the 'overnight method'

-more regular pets (smaller chance of getting any particular egg)

I think something should be done to make these pets more obtainable, it's just not funny anymore how hard these pets are to get. I've been around for most of eggcave history and I've never seen this many people posting on the blog that they got nothing AT ALL.

Some proposed solutions:

- retiring more creatures (not my fave option)

- increasing the chance of getting an LE when they're available or increasing the release window (won't get everyone a pet, but at least they'll be easier to trade for)

- somehow making it so that everyone sees at least one LE in the cave during the release window, this way there will be no need to lengthen the release and the spread of creatures will be much fairer (my fave option)

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 11:16 AM

I'm pretty sure there will be lots of people who will disagree with me for various reasons, but I really think something should be done about this. I know there will always be people who get nothing, but these last two releases have been pretty insane. The Christmas 2009 pets were easier to get... And back then you couldn't even see what you were stealing DX



Fire away, let's see what everyone thinks of this 😊


...


Wonder if anyone will respond, my threads have a penchant for dying DX

Please ping me on @dionaea if you do 😊

EDIT: Just went through the archives and I counted 41 available common pets (not counting Terron & Mo), which means 42 pets were available in the cave during the Ambrie release. AKA with 40 tries per user (4 day release) the average number of Ambries a user would get using all their tries is less than 1.
...
Less than ONE Ambrie, for coming on here every day to try... ☹️

Or if you prefer: (41/42)^40=0.38, 38% of people who tried every day got nothing.

Deleted • 15 April 2012 at 11:17 AM

^Agree

booker693 • 15 April 2012 at 11:19 AM

I agree. I didn't get an Ambrie, and I just started, so it's really hard for me to trade to get rare creatures.

balletninja • 15 April 2012 at 11:19 AM

Retire some commons.

whitefall • 15 April 2012 at 11:30 AM

True. ^^
And most people are starting to hoard new LEs, and people do not have a chance to trade for them.

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 11:41 AM

@blackdeathkitty

😃

@booker693

That's one of the main things I don't like about this, it's making eggcave much less fun and more frustrating for if you're new.

@balletninja

I agree some commons should be retired, but I'd definitely prefer if more was done. The release windows really are short and they don't need to be this short, especially since we no longer have the overnight method.

@whitefall

Yeah, hoarding is removing a lot of pets from the trading pool too ☹️ I think people should be allowed to hoard though, I mean, it's their pets, but we seriously need more LE's to go around...

sweetangelbutterfly • 15 April 2012 at 11:54 AM

I think during events, the chance of getting commons should be decreased, and chance of getting an LE should be increased, then return to normal after the event. I don't think anything should be retired

elluwah • 15 April 2012 at 12:11 PM

@dionaea

Absolutely agree with this.
I always feel bad when I get something in the cave and see lots of people on the blog who haven't received anything themselves, and I'd love to help them if I can but it's virtually impossible these days, as it really does seem more unlikely for LE's to appear in the cave.

It's even worse when I experience not getting anything MYSELF, and then have to resort to trading. And, of course, trading is getting harder because of hoarders. People do this in the hope that they'll "gain value", but why? Making them gain value will just increase the problem... as they'll STILL remain hard to get.

Urgh. I just have a problem with hoarders, haha. XD
Anyway, I love your suggestions and believe that any of them could work. Thank you for typing this all up, I'm curious to see what other peoples opinions are to this. I, for one, fully support it and I found it very interesting to see a comparrison between weighted rarities! o_O

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 2:55 PM

@sweetangelbutterfly

That would be one of the better solutions, I really don't like the thought of a lot of commons retiring, since it will just create even more rare pets DX

@elluwah

LOL, your feat has my name on it X3 That's how it's spelled on my passport 😸

And yeah, I don't like the excessive hoarding some people do either, especially if it's just for trading, I can understand you want to get an extra or two to trade, but six or more extras? O_o They can do what they want, but I agree, I don't like it much either.

And the weighted rarities had been on my mind for a while already, but I never got a solid figure to work with. Ian now finally gave one for the Mouflon, even if it's not 100% accurate, it makes this stuff a lot more tangible.

*pokes final intro post's edit* I did some more calculating and it turns out we were set to fail from the start, if the chances to get a pet are equal for all which are available in the cave, on average a user would have gotten less than one Ambrie with 40 tries...

miomar • 15 April 2012 at 2:59 PM

I disagree.

gggaaahhh1 • 15 April 2012 at 3:05 PM

You should not be penalized for having the world's rottenest luck on any particular day.

blackrose_chan • 15 April 2012 at 3:07 PM

@dionaea I like how rarer it has become in cave. I still miss the over night method but I just hated how the Christmas le, New years le, and Halloween le became SO common. some were even considered junk.

the only reason why it's so hard is because...
1. there is no over night method.

in last version of eggcave. the pets where out for a day and no less!!!(sometimes more) that overnight thing was like heaven❤️ I was able to snatch creature that were impossible to get.

but now you can just trade for creatures you missed or give your luck to the cave.

zorakst • 15 April 2012 at 3:35 PM

@dionaea I agree. The site losses some of its fun factor when there's such a small chance of getting an LE, especially since this makes them worth more than most of the other recent eggs.

And newer users don't stand any chance of trading for one of them either. :c

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 3:36 PM

@miomar

Any particular reason? All input is welcome 😊

@gggaaahhh1

Yeah, I had the world's rottenest luck on the last 8 days LE's were released ☹️ Really sucks >.<

@blackrose_chan

I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's gone too far in the other direction. If you look at the calculation I made for the Ambrie you can see the average amount of Ambrie given out over the 40 available tries is less than one, I think that's just too little. The overnight method was awesome, I agree XD But also very unfair to the younger kids in the USA (where most peeps on here are from) since they couldn't get on at the time or had parents etc turning off PC's. I'm not asking for hugely extended release periods, but one day (or maybe two) more for the Ambrie would certainly have been in order.

*grinds brain like crazy*

EUREKA! 😊 I finally remember, my math's a bit rusty, sorry DX But you can actually calculate the percentage of people that got nothing even when trying 40 times:

(41/42)^40=0.38 or 38% got nothing despite trying every day.

I think that's just too much, also, these pets were for St Patricks day (3(!) pets for a week with overnight last year) and Easter (3(!) pets for a week with overnight last year).

miomar • 15 April 2012 at 3:42 PM

@Dionaea
Well, I think LE's are actually not rare enough. It would be way more fun to show off how lucky you are and what you have got. Making LE's less rare would also ruin the only thing newbies can trade with.

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 3:54 PM

@zorakst

Yeah, I know, even I had to give up some pretty rare stuff for the Ambries and Runton I traded for. ☹️ Can't imagine a new user trading that kind of stuff...

@miomar

Problem is that approximately 40% of those newbies found nothing in the cave this week and are unlikely to find a pet for free in the TC since few people have extras, so they don't profit from the high rarity at all. This isn't necessarily about me, I've made peace with my bad luck, I go to the cave, find nothing, swear for a bit and trade for the pet. Newbies don't have that luxury, since they have little to nothing to trade with... Also, was it really that bad back in the day when the first christmas pets came out and everyone was giving them away for free?

musicgurl333 • 15 April 2012 at 4:42 PM

I have mixed feelings about this. I didn't get any runtons, but I did get 2 ambries, so I can see both sides of the issue.

On one hand, I can understand people being frustrated when it's hard to get new creatures, and some people end up without any. It's especially tough on newbies who don't have anything worth trading.

On the other hand, when a lot of LEs are released at once, it makes them pretty much worthless for trading. I really need creatures that I can trade for freezes, and I sort of like having creatures released that are more rare and easier to trade.

Most LEs have a long release time, and it's fairly easy to get them. Look at the Valentine's Day, Christmas, and Halloween eggs. I think it's nice to sometimes release some that are more rare, as long as it doesn't happen every time.

whispers • 15 April 2012 at 4:47 PM

@dionaea
I completely agree! I've seen many people posting how they didn't get even one! 😱
I think maybe 1 cave critter should be retired...
But raising the chances of getting the LEs is the best option as you had said earlier. I had gotten 2 Ambries, luckily. I had 2 girl Ambries (❤️),but one changed to a boy Friday night o.O

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 5:12 PM

@musicgurl333

I understand what you mean, it's really hard to balance rarity and availability, to me it just seems that with these last two pets Ian's gone kinda overboard. I think he should at the very least make sure the average amount of the pet given out for the available amount of tries is at least one. If there aren't even enough pets being given out to cover the people trying to get them I think they're too rare...

@whispers

Free genderchange 😱 I'd have been so happy if that'd have happened to me *loves male-female pairs* X3

whispers • 15 April 2012 at 5:16 PM

@dionaea
I was thinking at first "oh, yay, pairs"
Then now I'm bawling cause I wanted them to be sistah's XD

sanibel_18 • 15 April 2012 at 5:33 PM

@dionea

i kinda agree.😊
but i shouldn't be too easy to get a creature.😱

maybe some creature's could travel a few day when there was a LE in the cave so i could be just a little bit easier to get one.😊

dionaea • 15 April 2012 at 5:49 PM

@whispers

DX That stinks ☹️

@sanibel_18

Sending the commons on holiday so we can get more LE's... O.O I love that idea 😊 We should start with the Yeep, Salaslyke, Snawler, Caiman and Alkub those definitely deserve some love X3

james-bond • 15 April 2012 at 5:53 PM

I think this is a good weighted rarity amount. We need creatures to not be as common as common creatures. I even thought that there were too many of them around. We must remember though, that the Flaren was INCREDIBLY popular when it first came out. So people look after them more carefully. The weighted rarity of the Onny is another example of this. People loved it so they look after them really carefully.

wispa • 15 April 2012 at 7:03 PM

@dionaea
I agree. I was actually lucky enough to get an ambrie from the cave on the last day I think - or next to last but I traded to get 2 before I got mine because I was afraid I wouldn't actually get one.


@blackrose_chan
I also really miss how you could overnight to get a creature. At least you knew you could one of them each day. -- Would love to see the old way of stealing eggs come back.

I even use it for certain commons before just because it never failed that if I wanted a macaw it would take forever for that particular creature to show up for me.

But I also agree with you about how some of the holiday creatures were so easy to get that you are right people were treating them like junk. And that is really sad. So for those times it was almost too easy.

@balletninja
I also agree and I think some more of the commons need to be retired.


I don't really know 100% how I feel. Yes it totally stinks when you miss something ☹️ . And sometimes it is hard to trade and get it.
On the other hand if everything was easy to get then it wouldn't really be that much fun either.

So I think retiring another common or 2 would help, and I honestly would really love to see the overnight option come back.

Sorry I know my post is conflicting, but I think that is because I am a little conflicted about it... :/

blackrose_chan • 15 April 2012 at 9:11 PM

@wispa I miss the old way to get a creature especially because the new way I can easily fluke up getting a creature

example me getting a mo D: I find one in the cave but I accidentally click the outside of the box and end up leaving it ☹️ in old version that wouldn't happen -.-

wispa • 15 April 2012 at 9:16 PM

@blackrose_chan
I have done that before also. Oh, and I have also lost an egg before for taking to long to name it I guess.

I had the box up and also had another tab open looking up names. By the time I got back and tried to get it I couldn't. ☹️

blackrose_chan • 15 April 2012 at 9:19 PM

@wispa same happens to me but... I was able to take it some how o.O I got the message but I still got the creature

that is a little stupid idea. I mean 😱 the eggs can't just get up and leave... unless someone makes a egg with legs xD

Deleted • 16 April 2012 at 1:33 AM

I feel stupid but what is the overnight method and why did it dissappear?