A solution to the problem with creatures of people who quit

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 7:57 PM

@meixiaotian For what reason would I Have to leave? A world war? Then the whole of egg cave would be shut down. I am talking about people quitting for good. There are so many accounts where people are simply not coming back. If I were to leave egg cave and didn't give my creatures to my friends, I would be more than happy to have my creatures put in the adoption centre. I think the greed and selfishness is more from those who want to hoard the creatures in their account.
"Debates get real down and literal". No. Of course not, if everything was taken literally, you would get nowhere.
That is not entirely fair. The humble egg cavers simply go around to their friends, give them their creatures, tell them they're going to quit, and quietly leave. You don't often hear of them BECAUSE they leave in this humble way!
The thing is, it won't happen.
I never said that egg cave is all about trading. I even stated that everyone has a different goal in egg cave.
"I mean answer the whole question." Yes, it would die, but again, that's why Tim can book for 60 days.". I answerd that question ages ago.
Your return to the main point is just repeating what I've already said.

Deleted • 28 May 2012 at 8:00 PM

@james-bond Look, this won't happen, unless Ian sprouts wings. So many people have said that they don't like the idea, and Ian won't make something that so many people disagree on.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:04 PM

@blackdeathkitty I agree that this will not be put in place, but these conversations help decide future decisions. <--- I have stated that already by the way
The second point was stated after the first. Because people were stuck on using real life examples, I chose an example they could relate to. But After that I said that internet and RL are very different. Which they are. Even @mika_milile
shows that by saying "Nothing is inethical on the internet". I disagree with that, but that is a point someone has brought up.

@meixiaotian As I have told you before, RL and egg cave are very different! You can't compare people dying with people quitting. They are too different.
"I have to admit, leaving for 3 years if a long time, and they probably won't come back, which is a strong point I agree with, but they still shouldn't lose their creatures." I don't get it. Why? Sure, you could say you've been stating it all along but I have answered every point.

twilight_raptor • 28 May 2012 at 8:06 PM

@james-bond
I've read the previous posts and I see both sides have their pros and cons. Like if a user is inactive for 3 years I doubt they would even care about their account on EC and the creatures but on the other hand it is possible for a user to come back after 3 years but was unable to do so before for what ever reason (could even be a physical disability -some one mentioned a coma xP or paralysis?) and it would be an awful loss for them when they return. Sending an email to them wont work in this case either. So I really can't make my self choose between the two sides and I keep finding myself telling "This is too complicated, why not just leave it as it is?" 😋 Since many users have different opinions. While some would care about their creatures going into the AC (like you 😋), some wont. So the benefits and losses felt would depend on a persons point of view and who is affected and how on this suggestion. To satisfy everyone we'd have to make separate rules for each user based on their likes and dislikes 😉

Deleted • 28 May 2012 at 8:06 PM

@james-bond But the post about;

If the painting Starry Night was privately owned, the owner died, and said in their will "I am keeping this to myself. No one can see it or touch it" is it fair? Is it fair that the person is no longer available to trade to therefore people are missing out on every chance to obtain that creature that may be their goal on egg cave?

Egg cave and real life are different. Very different. In a way, every thing is less extreme. If someone leaves egg cave, they haven't died. If a creature dies, a life has not been lost. Therefore it is not like banks saying "First to get the $1,000,000 gets it".


is sort of hypocritical. The first part is about a RL situation. The second part is saying that RL and EC are different >.<

balletninja • 28 May 2012 at 8:07 PM

Meh, I think there will be a point when rares have found their permanent homes. That is a big problem with eggcave. But, whatever I mean if people want to keep their eggs just let them.

meixiaotian • 28 May 2012 at 8:10 PM

@james-bond College. Some tragedy. But that's not my point. My point is how would you feel if you lost all of the hard worked creatures to people who didn't do anything. I know you already said how you'd feel about that.
"I think the greed and selfishness is more from those who want to hoard the creatures in their account."
It's not greed nor selfishness as everyone said. It's just being attached to something.
"That is not entirely fair. The humble egg cavers simply go around to their friends, give them their creatures, tell them they're going to quit, and quietly leave. You don't often hear of them BECAUSE they leave in this humble way!"
I don't remember hearing about that. Maybe once...
I think that trailing off into specifics isn't exactly contributing though. That's why I wanted to return to the main points.
Okay, lets say that it was implanted. The people who leave that long rarely have rares so I don't see how it would completely help.
"You can't compare people dying with people quitting." I'm just comparing how they leave, don't come back, and how their stuff can still be their even if they don't use it. How can't I?
Why shouldn't they lose their creatures? I've also already said a lot why.

whispers • 28 May 2012 at 8:10 PM

Goodness. So much arguing.
@james-bond
I personally disagree with this idea.
I have Type 1 Diabetes. If something happens, and I get really sick, and won't be able to get on for a long time. I would be very disappointed to see all my creatures that I worked hard to get - be given to a random users. Who may as well just let them die.
It can happen. It can happen to people. They could suddenly not be able to get on a for a while. Then to come back to see their critters gone. It's not right. It's unfair to those with the higher risk of it (like me.)
I also see that this could ruin somebody's chance of surviving in the real world, with this terrible economy. Trading for your rares teaches people about working for things they want. It gives them skill as a child that could be valuable when they reach adulthood. If they learn to get everything for free, they may start to not do their work in school...thinking it will be done for them. And it may be worse and affect their chance of actually getting a job, or in college.

And EggCave isn't all about trading. I believe that it is for making friends and having a good time.

EDIT: I don't want to gang up on you. I'm just expressing my opinion on this suggestion

balletninja • 28 May 2012 at 8:12 PM

Should I argue on James-bond's side? Just because I feel like everyone isn't being realistic with this idea. I feel like ya'll are ganging up on her and not being open minded.

Once a person is gone for 3 years, I doubt they are coming back and if for some reason they do and everything is gone I think (if the reason is good enough) that Ian would restore their creatures.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:12 PM

@zac "The point may differ for each person, but the 'point' as defined by the Egg Cave team has already been stated. Who's definition do you think they'll use?" We have already talked about this. The point defined by egg cave does not mean it is everyone's point. The point for humans is survival. But there are points within that point is there not?

"you'll only find creatures with some sort of significance in my cove". Yes, and they are some of the 'other points within the point'. You don't only need one goal. There can be many.

"it defeats the purpose of 'your' Egg Cave of trading for rare eggs." If the creatures are adopted, the adopter is able to trade.

@linpug Few people come back to egg cave after a long time. Also, isn't it better seeing others enjoying your old creatures rather than them just sitting in your cove?

The e-mails, yes, that was suggested before and I think it's a great idea.

Thanks, I feel like I'm being totally hammered! D: There is truely nothing good.

meixiaotian • 28 May 2012 at 8:14 PM

"The e-mails, yes, that was suggested before and I think it's a great idea."
The only problem is, what if your email is deleted while you're not on, so it isn't fixed.
Yeah, I know it's unrealistic, but it happens.

balletninja • 28 May 2012 at 8:16 PM

@meixiaotian Just a bunch of "what ifs". What if the sun blows up tomorrow?

Okay let's be realistic, a bunch of junk isn't going to happen and the person will know their account is going to be deleted.

lizardfeather • 28 May 2012 at 8:17 PM

I don't think anyone's brought this up yet, but if this (or something similar) were to happen, in 3 years when the first creatures start getting dropped in the AC, it's just going to turn into something like Dragon Cave where the person with the fastest clicking/computer is going to get all the eggs. And from then on the people who get the most of the eggs'll probably be the people who stalk the AC.

I think that kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing because it's going to be a few people snagging them all, but then again you could get lucky. I just don't think it will play out where newbies, or anyone for that matter, is going to get anything decent unless they stalk the AC. I'm not against purging, but something like that is just going to unbalance trading values.

Also when it comes to abandoning your account, I think of it like this: if you have money you're free to burn it if you want to (lol) even if someone would rather spend it.

meixiaotian • 28 May 2012 at 8:19 PM

@balletninja It could still happen. Highly unrealistic, but still. Like I said, we shouldn't punish those who are unlucky enough.
I know it's mostly unrelated but-nvm.

twilight_raptor • 28 May 2012 at 8:19 PM

@balletninja That sounds cool. 😊 If Ian is willing to replace the creatures for a good enough reason provided by the user. But what about the actual critters that got distributed and is being owned by someone else?

balletninja • 28 May 2012 at 8:19 PM

@lizardfeather I think if anything like this does happen then it should just be deleted point blank. People will start making cheat engines like they do for neopets that nab up all the good pets. The names are important to me, that is all really.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:20 PM

@lola622f Do you know anyone who has had a coma for longer than three years on egg cave? Certainly not, even though the biggest reason is that egg cave hasn't been around for three years. But the chances of that are highly unlikely. Think about the big picture. If it wasn't a coma, but a hospital sickness, I have already said but egg cave on a laptop is gret entertainment when you're stuck in hospital for three years.

There would be harldy any really rare reatures in the AC. This rule would encourage creatures to be given to friends before they quit.

Of course, if you don't think anyone is deserving of your creatures and you don't want anyone to enjoy them, you can just delete your account along with all the creatures in it. That is possile even now. @dreamer that also answers your first point.

@dreamer if someone loves their creatures as much as you do, they wouldn't quit would they? That would just be abandoning them, so this rule shouldn't be a problem to you. Right?

"Why does it matter anyways? They're pixels. They're not physically real. ^^ You can love pixels, but they're really not THIS big of a deal." So why is this suggestion such a big deal to you?

icymuffin • 28 May 2012 at 8:20 PM

1) Even if this were to happen, it's going to be a long time before it's going to work or even be implemented. So hang on reeaaal tight before you get that Onny of yours from your dreams.

2) You're going to have to convince very many users to like this. Merely repeating your opinion over and over and over rather than addressing the problems of your idea is not going to make us accept it, let alone like it.

3) That user worked for their creature. Now just because they haven't gotten a chance to log on for some time doesn't mean that they aren't coming back. Perhaps it's just that you don't want to believe it. *prods Meteoroid* ><"

4) Egg Cave is NOT based on the rarity of your cove. Egg Cave is based on community. That's what we all had since the beginning.




@balletninja
Realistically, after 3 years, yeah... probably not. :I
But I mean, it seems that the whole purpose of this is to get rare creatures of users who don't seem/get a chance to be online much.
And the problems pointed out by other users seemed to be ignored more than addressed in a way.... :/

{I mean, Egg Cave isn't 3 years old. Plus there aren't many "rare" creatures 3 years ago. But I digress.}



@james-bond
No they may not quit, but there is this thing called Real Life they have to give their full attention to from time to time.

lizardfeather • 28 May 2012 at 8:21 PM

Here come the pings xD

@balletninja Yea I don't really have an issue with purging, I just don't want it to get unbalanced. 😋

balletninja • 28 May 2012 at 8:25 PM

@icymuffin Yup, gone.
But, I mean by the time three years go around and you don't come on, eggcave isn't top priority.
They probably won't care.

@twilight_raptor Let them keep the pets. The names can be worked out but that way you can both get pets. But as I mentioned, I rather just have the account be gone point blank.

@meixiaotian That is why Ian would probably be lenient with the really unlucky users and restore the pets.

twilight_raptor • 28 May 2012 at 8:28 PM

@balletninja yep, *pokes post before my last* Different people would have different views on this. You'd like the account gone while James-bond would have the pets on the AC xP So its hard to please all. No wonder there's so much argument, eh? xD

meixiaotian • 28 May 2012 at 8:30 PM

-poof-

dreamer • 28 May 2012 at 8:30 PM

@James-bond

First off, you have no right telling me what I should or should not do. Nothing will change my mind.

I don't love my creatures to the point where I spend every waking moment on here caring for them. Heck, they're all immortal, so they basically just sit here, but I still enjoy looking at them when I log on. Even if I left for a long while, I'd still expect to see them when I get back. Otherwise, it would be unfair to me.

Anything is possible, really. People can leave for three years and never come back, OR, three years later, you could regain interest, whether it be from a younger sibling or just random thoughts.

My example would be Club Penguin. I haven't use the site since I was in the third grade, so that's almost FOUR years. My little sister stumbled upon the site last month and I've kinda rejoined it. But if all of my awards and old items had disappeared and got thrown out to other users, I would be sad, and VERY infuriated.

And I'm only arguing with you on this subject because it's my opinion. I could care less about the issue. But I have an OPINION, and I'm going to defend it no matter what the consequence and no matter what the subject, don't think otherwise.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:30 PM

@zac "Life isn't fair and neither is the internet" So it's okay if this suggestion is put in place right?

Because banks giving out $1,000,000 to people is refering to real life. Like I explained before I used the Van Gough reference as something you could relate to because of your idea of real life and internet. I talked about Real life being very different to egg cave after I stated that.

"Is it fair that some users have to work harder than others to achieve the same thing? Nope. Does it happen? Absolutely." But that's okay! Because when people quit, they can do what they want with their eggs. Pick 5 and leave the rest for the AC, give to their friends, give to randoms, or just delete everything! You say it like there is not choice, but there is everything.

" my cove and the coves' of many other users don't exist just to satisfy the goals of random users. You may consider that greedy, but I feel that denying users the satisfaction that accompanies achieving their goals is more of a disservice." Everyone has a right to have their own goal. Therefore, not everyone follows the goal that egg cave has set for everyone. It is not denying users satisfaction, because the user has choices with what to do with the creatures. Those goals aer still there! Just in other people's coves.

icymuffin • 28 May 2012 at 8:36 PM

Oh, I also forgot to mention... It's kinda like having a bunch of stuff in the attic. You don't really use it anymore, but someday you may just stumble across the old belongings out of curiousity or nostalgia. Maybe you'll go back to it. It's likely you won't. But there is always a chance you will. Even if it's slim, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Now this suggestion is like saying: Oh, since you're not going to visit it each year, might as well just give it to your neighbors 'cuz they want that stuff. :I

I mean, some creatures people did spend money on.... ><"

linpug • 28 May 2012 at 8:36 PM

1) You can be emailed first about 50 days before the creatures are abandoned.

2) There can be an option whether you want to abandon them.

3) There can be an option kinda like this: "If I don't come on for 5 years then my creatures will be given to ____ ______ and ____"

4) If you don't go on egg cave for lets say 3 years, would you still be attached to your creatures?

^o^

yogurt • 28 May 2012 at 8:43 PM

The problem isn't all about quitting, Even if this were to happen, one day eventually all of a certain rare creature will be stuck with someone who promises to never trade it away. Once someone trades for a creature it's their choice to pick that do do with it. Ian or eggcave can't just rip it away from them because they feel like it. A reason why they can't is because that person could have paid 5 dollars to get it that would just be a scam and it will damage the site if people hear about it. Even though it is just 5 dollars people will start to question the site and if they should spend money on something that could be taken back just like that. If this is actually part of eggcave I'm pretty sure many people will quit and it'll ruin the site. Though I do understand why this idea has been though of but I think we should just leave it as it is now.

I hope this doesn't make me seem mean or anything, because that is not what I am trying to do at all.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:50 PM

@meixiaotian Yes, re-releasing is something that I hope never happens as it is very unfair. That is why I haven't made it a solution.

@blackdeathkitty You have made the point about it not happening at least 5 times already! I get it, no need to put me down further. Your post about real life and egg cave, I have already explained it in depth.

@twilight_raptor Will they be returning if they are paralysed? And I explained the point about a coma and hospital sickness earlier. The chances of someone not being able to get on egg cave for over 3 years is highly unlikely.

Why shouldn't we just leave it as it is? Because the rare creatures will eventually be impossible to get.

@meixiaotian "College. Some tragedy." All these examples you are giving me are still not valid. If you're at college you will have a minute to log on to egg cave and renew the time. Tragedy: What do you mean? Family member died? Why would that stop them from loging on to EC.
"But that's not my point." Yes, it was one of your points.

Deleted • 28 May 2012 at 8:56 PM

@james-bond Okay, I am sorry for putting you down. I respect your opinion and I really don't want to be enemies with you. I am sorry.

james-bond • 28 May 2012 at 8:58 PM

@mexiaotian Continued: If the people who recieve your creatures from the AC "Don't do anything" They wouldn't be aactive in the 1st place.
You wouldn't feel anything. You've QUIT so you wouldn't even know they're gone! Rather, you'd know someone else is enjoying them!
If you're that attatched to something, you wouldn't quit.
" I don't remember hearing about that. Maybe once..." (This is about people humbly and quietly leaving) You have not answered this point because you just gave an example of the exact point I made. You don't often hear of such things because of the very way they leave. 😉
"The people who leave that long rarely have rares so I don't see how it would completely help" That's because egg cave is too young for this circumstance yet.
" I'm just comparing how they leave, don't come back, and how their stuff can still be their even if they don't use it." You can't compare 2 different things. The point about people having a sentimental attatchment being the reason people want to leave their creatures immortal in their cove: Can you have a sentimental attatchment to your belongins when your dead?

About the e-mail: Come on. Can we just think the big pictuer? The realistic stuff that happens? You yourself said not to get too hooked up with the nitty gritty things.