Trade Center Safety Page

dreamer • 13 August 2012 at 3:18 PM

Yes, I know it's better to have these rules posted, but it ticks me off that this seems to be Ian's only response to scams.

People are always getting scammed of their CC AND their creatures, for that matter; but there will still be people ignoring these rules and trading. And when someone gets ripped off, the only thing that seems to be done is Ian saying he "can't" get the creatures back and posting another warning.

This is really starting to tick me off for some reason. I know for certain there are more ways to fix the problem; A better way to actually TRADE Cavecash would be helpful, but we just get ignored whenever we mention it.

A trading safety page is fine, but come on. There HAS to be more you can do to fix the issue, other than just saying "Cavecash is not meant for trading," and "We can not return any stolen creatures." Because I'm sure as heck that these things CAN be returned, if you actually want them to be.

Just my thoughts on the situation, please post with your opinion. ^^

deku • 13 August 2012 at 3:21 PM

I totally agree with you, but at the same time I can see what Ian means.

It would be great if we could trade CC, and it sucks that we are being ignored about that. But at the same time we should learn if we can trust people, not just automatically think, "This person MUST have those travels/CC!"

I wish it was a more simple matter, but it isn't. OTL

dreamer • 13 August 2012 at 3:25 PM

@Ixy1209 I agree. ^^

Some people accept trades from ANYONE, even newbies, and I think that's wrong. I have never once scammed anyone, nor have I been scammed. This is because I only trade with people I know, and/or trust. And the people who trade with ME know that I can be trusted. The only problem I used to have was with creature values, and I do still screw up sometimes, but it's nothing big enough to cry over.

I just read the trade safety page; basically what Ian's saying is that we can only get CC items if we BUY the CaveCash ourselves, and that brings up even more issues (people not being allowed to buy CC, or not affording it, thus they can never freeze their creatures or get CC pets).

And then whenever someone asks/suggests that there be a new feature to help with CaveCash trading, we either get ignored, or the topic ends up getting locked. That's unfair as well; EggCave should listen to suggestions without ignoring them like that.

The whole situation is starting to seem like child's play to me-- But I can't be so rude about it, since I suppose there's no perfect solution to the problem.

deku • 13 August 2012 at 3:29 PM

@dreamer

Yeah, it'd be a lot more easier if people just trade with those they trust, but sometimes even they can't get CC from friends. So it probably puts them in a tougher situation. It also helps to be a little paranoid. >.> Scamming's stupid, which is why I don't fall for anything--and just haven't scammed others at all.

And it is child's play if users trade with people that seem... not so trustworthy and then whine about how their creatures were stolen from them. Everyone needs to be smarter.

dreamer • 13 August 2012 at 3:38 PM

@Ixy1209 True, again. 😸 People seem to lack common sense. X3 I hate scammers, but I've never actually had trouble with them... I've been trolled a few times, but that's not too bad. 😱

I might stop trading for a while... I have trust issues sometimes, but I guess that makes me less prone to hacks. I've been here for over 2 years, and for that whole time, I've been scam-free.

Then again, the features on Ec could use some work:

Creatures keep their travels in the trade center; But supposedly, we can't trust people to put travels on our creatures for us.
We can gift CC to other accounts; but we still can't trade cavecash safely.
Essence of Litsdnats can freeze your creature; but apparently we can't let other people freeze our creatures without losing them forever.

The way I see it, it's like giving a little kid an ice cream cone, and then telling them that they're not allowed to eat it.

solaris • 13 August 2012 at 3:39 PM

@dreamer

I totally agree with this. I have traded for CC myself, since it's the only way I can actually get some. Luckily I have never been scammed, but I only trade with users who I feel are 100% trustworthy.

Also, no matter how much we are warned about it, people are still going to do it. So, we might as well have a safe option!

linpug • 13 August 2012 at 3:44 PM

I trust people way to much. xD I don't really feel the need of this, because I've never once been scammed. 😊 I've let someone I didn't know put a travel on my tine. XD

But I suppose your right. 😉 Just putting up notices won't stop it completely. 😋 It would be nice if there was a CC trade and travel trade feature. I've suggested it, as well 😋 While it's nice to know if you could trust someone of not, I think it's better to trade safer. 😊

Meteoroid • 13 August 2012 at 4:38 PM

You're correct about us being able to pluck a creature from an account and return it to another person. I cannot exactly agree with the notion that nothing is done whenever a user is scammed. The purpose behind the wording is to make it clear that the Egg Cave staff does not wish to go spend time playing detective to reverse the mistakes a user made on their own accord. However, despite the warnings, we always look into these issues and offer support. Nobody likes a scammer and it is annoying to see one get away with anything.

Simply put, this new Trade Safety page is essentially meant to compliment a very effective scam/hack blocker; Common Sense.

We're not putting a true stop to CC trading by posting these rules, I understand that. There will always be rule-breakers. This new page is just making it clear that CC Trading is full of risk, as well as any other kind of trading that is currently not supported officially.

The suggestions about CC tradings has not fallen on deaf ears, either. Ian has addressed the issue multiple times by stating that CC should not be the entire backbone behind trading creatures. This is why you may not see a CC option below the EC one in the desirable future at the Trade Center. I have seen plenty of suggestions about how the site could be made safer, and I agree with them. Having an inventory feature implemented, where users could trade Travels, Potions, and other CC items, would be very nice and could stop unsafe trading in that regard.

Orderedchaos • 13 August 2012 at 4:39 PM

What many users do not seem to recognize is that, at the end of it all, you are actually the most powerful moderation tool there is. Of course written rules and notifications are not a surefire way to stop problems on the site, but users are the ones to make what of it.

Let it be known that this is not the final solution nor is it meant to totally curb-stomp unsafe trading. There are certainly going to be new features added to the site that will make everything a more pleasant experience here on Egg Cave. We are always open to ideas.

stellie • 13 August 2012 at 4:44 PM

@orderedchaos
@meteroid

whoops nevermind, I should of read all before posting

Ian • 13 August 2012 at 6:08 PM

@dreamer

@Meteoroid, @orderedchaos: well said.

The biggest reason why I say that we cannot return lost creatures is because, often times, scammers obtain them through transferring them to many, multiple accounts (and sometimes using legitimate player's accounts as a proxy, e.g. spirit's side getting hacked). The problem with this "trade chain" is that sometimes these scammers end up trading with a legitimate user to obtain something different or even more rare. The reason why trade reversals are so problematic is because, in the case of scamming, it requires the reversal of many trades. If we began intervening in the natural flow of trading and began reversing trades that players thought were legitimate, it would disappoint and upset a lot of people. In my mind, that doesn't necessarily solve the challenge we're facing; it merely begins a whole new issue.

This is why I'm taking the more "common sense" and "awareness" route to deter scamming. Yes there are still good, legit people to trade CC with and yes, users do favors for other users, but players need to know that this is not 100% safe nor guaranteed, thus creation of the Trade Safety page.

I hope that this brings about more clarity. 😊 Let me know if you have any more questions.