Auctions are Out of Control.

kataclysm • 15 May 2022 at 12:12 PM

Whether it's snipers lunging in at the last minute with a bid three times the price of the winner's, or bidding wars that grow to extortionate prices, the auctions are a lawless land that have stopped being fun to play in.

Auction etiquette is a gray area, I know. We list creatures at base prices and after that, it's pretty much out of our hands. But bidding wars have been getting ridiculous lately. I won't name names, but there are users I've been tempted to block because they're stealing legitimate auction wins from users that are just trying to get a creature for their cove. Whether the snipers keep their creatures and cherish them...

Anyway... I don't need to get started on resellers - they're not why I'm here.

I'm here because I think the auctions need the chance to be slightly more moderated. Whether that's the option to include a maximum bid increment (it sucks to be outbid by over 100k when bidders have been happily throwing down 100EC per bid), or to consider other options, I think the auctions could be fairer. People are out here taking advantage of them and it rankles me, even if I'm not actively bidding.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from all sides of the table, so don't be afraid to @ me for a direct response.

armageddondoll • 15 May 2022 at 1:36 PM

@kataclysm

I would love it if you could only bid by the bidding increment set by the seller. I understand that, yeah, in real life you can hike bids up suddenly and exponentially. But the current ability to bid exorbitant amounts when people have just happily been bidding by 1's,10's, and 100'sEC increases at a time as set by the bidder feels like a step in the direction of a more uneven playing field.

There are a lot of kind cavers out there putting older creatures into Auctions for very low prices, which gives new cavers a chance to get some pretty rad critters they might not have as good a shot at otherwise.

I would like to think that maybe the ultra-high bidders are just trying to make sure that the seller gets a good price for the creature they put up. That it's out of kindness in some way. But when bids are chilling at 1,200EC and going up 1EC by 1EC, and then suddenly jump to 30K or higher, and it's just high rollers trying to duke it out for something 'decent' to resell? I can understand why a lot of new cavers are a little disheartened at getting creatures.

So I definitely agree, that either a max biddable amount or only being able to bid by the increments the seller chooses could be a really good change for the Auctions.

riceboysleeps • 15 May 2022 at 2:19 PM

@kataclysm Yeah, I don't really pay attention to the auctions for that reason. It often leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when I lose an auction to someone who's just going to flip the creature for multiple times the amount of EC that they paid. I think that auctions are inherently competitive and cause players to become upset with each other, so I'm not a fan.

snowywinter • 15 May 2022 at 2:33 PM

@kataclysm

When I was young auction snipers/ing on virtual pet sites bothered me... but it prepared me for the real world. That's just how it is in online bidding. learn to adapt to it and it can be a great educational tool. (Time management, quick math estimates, psychology, etc. There's a lot that goes into it.)
(And having a slow dial-up connection years past when many people had already switched to other high-speed forms of internet, I had to really hone my skills.)
...I now have fun occasionally bidding on real-life "penny" auctions (and usually winning) 😊

It's the resellers that get on my nerves.
I'd love to see a hold where the creatures can't be resold for X many days (30, 90, something.) but I think that would be hard to implement coding-wise. (Not to mention all the creatures that would end up dying from accounts where they aren't taken care of.)
I think an easier solution (that has been proposed by someone on the past. Sorry I can't remember who!) is just limiting the number of Auctions people can bid on in a day, week, etc. (The argument against it was staunching the EC economy. I honestly think this is the most fair option of them all though.)

As for blocking people for anything dealing with auctions... I always found that to be really immature behavior. It accomplishes nothing. It doesn't stop people from sniping, it doesn't increase any likelihood of winning auctions, and it doesn't stop people from reselling. It doesn't stop you from seeing their name come up in auctions (And even if it did, it works against the blocker because then you wouldn't know if they're online.)
...but to each their own.

This subject comes up allll time time. The Auctions simply cause most players a lot of undue stress. (And have ruined many a friendship on here.) Would I want to see them gone? No. ...I just wish people would learn to take them less seriously. To those stressed out by them I highly recommend taking breaks from the Auctions now and then; it's not an obligatory part of the game, just another avenue for a chance to get some rare creatures or inexpensively & quickly unload unwanted ones. (Odds at the Auctions are a lot better than the Mysterious Asteroid ; p )

kataclysm • 15 May 2022 at 4:03 PM

Though I can see where your argument is coming from, I don't think we can really compare EggCave to the 'real world', in this context. Auctions here are available to adults and to young users, to new and to old members of EggCave. In the interest of maintaining an environment that's not likely to cause undue stress at all - we shouldn't really accept stress as a 'part of things', should we? - it's worthwhile to moderate environments like auctions and betting houses.

Be it for the wellbeing of users that are trying to embrace the spirit of EggCave or to respect the etiquette of auctions themselves, there are a lot of pros to moderating auctions - or at any rate, introducing controls that allow users to have a say in the fate of their auction. A known reseller bought a friend's creature for 60k, turned around and relisted it for 120k. But, the blocking does come in handy there because once blocked, that user can't bid on your auctions.

Nonetheless, I appreciate where you're coming from. You're right; it's not a mandatory element of EggCave but when a user lists a rare creature for a low price, that may be the only chance players have to get at it for a reasonable amount, or without having to purchase CC. Therefore, when you think you can get this creature for 10k, only to lose it to someone coming in with 100k, 200k, 300-

To think you've won or have gotten close to it and then discover that in the last two seconds someone steamrolled you with a bid so high you have no hope of outdoing it... Well, that's just unsportsmanlike, particularly in an environment where we're encouraged to be positive, to help one another, and to cherish the pets we can get our hands on.

It's a shame to think that the solution is to just not use them if you're not content with the lack of etiquette. I like your recycled suggestion of limiting bets, though that doesn't eliminate the inflation/overbidding element.

@snowywinter

stormwarden • 15 May 2022 at 6:38 PM

I definitely do think there should be a snipe protection element added, which would give other players a fighting chance and also help the seller make more profit! i've seen on another auction site where for every bid added in the last 10 seconds, it adds 10 seconds to the timer. I feel kinda bad for the seller when they've priced the creature at, let's say, 5k and then someone snipes it at the last second for 15k. with snipe protection, the other players who want this creature could drive the price up to something fair for the seller and this could also discourage random price spike sniping due to the increase in the timer and other players who could still jump in

cranberrycat1 • 15 May 2022 at 6:52 PM

I honestly agree with @/snowywinter, I sometimes bid at the last second but not at a very high price because I really want the creature but not loose a lot of ec (since I don’t feed creatures a lot). I do think that reselling the creature for a higher price after you bought it from the auction should be/or have restrictions because it is not fair to the people want that creature or to the previous owner of the creature.

And for blocking people for auctions I think it is pointless because it is supposed to be friendly competition and it also provides a disadvantage to you. As snowywinter stated it won’t stop them from bidding on other auctions that don’t belong to you and you won’t know if they are active so it might be easier for them to out bid you.

As you said @kataclysm you think you won but someone at the last 2 seconds outbid you. As that is unfair it is not uncommon and people have adapted to that by themselves waiting for the last few seconds to place there bid or bidding a high number to start with so not a lot of people would not bid on it.

This is just my opinion I know you probably have another, I do think some restrictions would be beneficial but not all of the ones you/others stated in some other topics (I don’t remember the other topic or where I found it) I have seen before.

heatherm19 • 19 May 2022 at 10:49 PM

I still feel like a bit of a newbie around here, but I'd like to put my 2cents in. The issues that are being brought up here are.... Well, honestly as a new player I just thought that's how Auctions are supposed to be or have always been. It's like there are two different types of selling/trading in this game: The Trade Center seems to be for longer trades, putting something up (or even entire 20-item lots!) and then just seeing if anyone offers at some point, It's also a lot more flexible when it comes to 'wants', instead of strictly trading for EC you can trade for CC, or other creatures, etc.

Auctions, on the other hand, have a built-in maximum run time and is much more of a free-for-all. Anyone can bid at any time and everyone's bids affect each others (ie, in Trades each offer is distinct and separate, but in Auctions every single bid will force the next person's bid higher...). There is a counter counting down to the *second* on every single auction, which adds to the rushed/frenzied atmosphere. Personally I wouldn't use Auctions at all if I wasn't able to adjust to that fast-paced more loosely organized way of doing things, it is definitely something that not everyone likes or feels comfortable with.

As far as certain issues... I've just seen 'snipping' as kind of unavoidable if you really want the thing you are bidding on. So many people bid in the last few minutes of an Auction, the only thing *to* do is to be right there with them bidding to the last second, or you'll lose out. I don't see that as 'stealing' or that 'snippers' have any less claim to an auction win than anyone else... They are just playing the game that is Auctioning.

I personally don't see an issue with resellers, but that may be my experience with another petsite making me a bit biased. In that game, as soon as the creature is off your account you have no say in anything that happens to it, and that's kind of Big Deal. Maybe Eggcave is totally different in that respect. But to me, if someone is paying and has the high bid to win an auction, why *shouldn't* they be able to do what they want with that creature that they won? Trying to impose conditions and limits on something like that may not work very well.

cryogenics • 20 May 2022 at 5:18 AM

i would also like to see a snipe protection - i have been trying real hard to get some creatures for my cove that i dont have, only to be outbid by several thousands.

and yes, i do wait for that 5 seconds to place my bid, but even then, i'm lucky if i get it.

I dont resell, I only collect one of a kind, and its honestly difficult to do sometimes.

If I have 'sniped' something you wanted, sorry, i am trying to collect honestly.

alraune3 • 20 May 2022 at 5:59 AM

I totally agree with @cryogenics.

As a longtime player who has been on a longer hiatus and lost a ton of eggs in the process, I can say that the trade center used to be a good place to exchange eggs and creatures or buy them for EC, but now it seems to me that everything there is only UFT for CC. I'm just not looking there anymore and try my luck with auctions. I've also often been outbid at the last second with considerable amounts.

omegacat27 • 1 June 2022 at 3:35 PM

This is something I feel pretty conflicted about. On one hand, as @heatherm19 said, sniping is pretty much inevitable in auctions, especially online ones. It is seen as a genuine strategy just as much as an annoyance. It's just one of those things that comes along with such a competitive selling method, whether that be fortunate or unfortunate to someone.

On the other hand, this is Eggcave we're talking about. Y'know, the place where most of the creatures are only obtainable from other players and thus it makes it harder for newer players to get the pets they want? Obviously the core of that is another story but in this instant, auctions are a decent way to get retired pets, even if its by a few months, and sniping makes that a challenge.

heatherm19 • 1 June 2022 at 4:42 PM

@omegacat27 Your second point is interesting, because you seem to see it as a negative while I've seen it as a pretty big positive. When I first joined I was so excited by how many different creatures there were.... And then so disappointed and frustrated to learn that the vast majority of creatures are retired/limited. As a new player that was really disheartening and may have put me off from the game, if it weren't for the auctions and trades. Now that I'm more acquainted with things here I've felt comfortable messaging people with 'UFT' tabs or whatever, but at first the auctions were the only way I really knew of to get those older creatures (especially since Trades often just seem to want CC). Granted, 'sniping' may work in my favor in part because I'm able to be online so much so I'm often here for the end of an auction, but as a newer player I do see it as a positive that I can win auctions just by being there at the right moment. I don't need CC or retired/valuable creatures to offer, with auctions it's just about being there at the right moment.