My Thoughts on the Re-release

raretreasurehunter56 • 24 July 2022 at 9:27 AM

After several long years, I finally decided to check up with this site. I was planning to get some resurrection stones to revive some of my creatures such as the Skrute, Kampos, and Bauble. However, I realized that there is a feature where these retired creatures may be rereleased. I noticed that the VEND Machine had most of the creatures I once had (Peeyu, Nuomek, Baku, Feggle, Amarra, Torget, & Wahla). A part of me feels somewhat conflicted that the time I spent from many years ago is obsolete now that these creatures are being re-released. Is this 're-release' really fair to players who obtained these creatures when it was first released?

There are some creatures I want such as the Balrogipuwet, but I think that the re-release is unfair to those who obtained the original creatures. According to Budgie's creature pricing guide from 2021, the Balrogipuwet was worth 10k-12.5k cc. If the Balrogipuwet is ever re-released, will that negatively impact the value of the original Balrogipuwet? Does that mean the original Balrogipuwet is worth 1k-2k cc after its re-release? And what happened with the Doovoo? Does it make sense that the Doovoo which is from 2010 is now more common than the monthly cc creatures like the Namino, which is currently available in the cc shop? Does that mean that the original Doovoo (which used to value 75k-80k cc) dropped in value? Is there any worth in resurrecting my retired creatures when the re-release may lower its value? What is everyone's opinion of this matter? Also if anyone can provide an up-to-date creature value guide, it would be much appreciated. Thanks for your time.

murmurw • 24 July 2022 at 10:19 AM

@raretreasurehunter56 Hi! Im glad to see an older user come back ^^

A few things that I’ll saw regarding your concerns (I’ll keep it short):

1. Fairness
In this, I feel like what’s being said is how is it fair to the users who tried so hard to get a certain creature? My take on this is that 75k+ cc is a bit unrealistic for everyone who wants to obtain a certain creature, & I get that there’s an appealing aspect to this (the accomplishment felt afterwords getting it if). And I agree, it may be heartbreaking to realize that your favorite creatures or the creatures you tried to get now are worth only a fraction of what they originally were. However, these creatures shouldn’t be collected simply because of worth, but also because of how much a user likes them.
So, I feel (my opinion will be different from others) that rereleases are actually MORE than fair for the majority of the people. And a little side note, I believe there was a vote done on it by the users or smth before they decided to do rereleases
(if I find the blog, I’ll add it here)
- 6 Month Rerelease Trial
- Voting
- Voting Results

2. Decrease in Value ? (Directly tied to fairness)
I guess my thoughts in this are the same as above, creatures shouldn’t be based off how much they’re worth (although, many ppl might seem them through those lenses because of how much they cost, which is understandable). Also, the thing with the Doovoo was a glitch (not too sure on the specifics because I was on a hiatus during that time), but I heard that too many people clicked to buy them at once, which resulted more Doovoos being sold then originally intended. Ian & his team decided not to take back a portion of those Doovoos because that would be unfair.

Hopefully what I said made sense! (Although there might be some spelling & grammatical mistakes).

My main point in getting at was how rereleases are the most fair Ian & his team can do as certain creatures were basically extinct & you couldn’t even buy them from people with tons of CC or other extremely rare creatures.

If you have any questions, I can try to answer them too ^^

Have a great day,
Murmurw

raretreasurehunter56 • 24 July 2022 at 11:29 AM

@murmurw
Thank you for your time to read my post. I can see your point of view, but I somewhat disagree with some parts of your perspective.

1. Fairness
Regarding fairness, the Doovoo should be worth around 75k cc because it was one of the rarest creatures to obtain. It may sound crazy to everyone but there were players back then who were willing to spend a lot of cc to obtain this creature.
https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/36505?page=1#874063
https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/29744?page=1#723724
https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/50502?page=1#1166577

2. Decrease in Value
During the year of 2012, the Doovoo was worth 10k cc. As time went on, the price of the Doovoo exponentially went up. When I was playing way back then, I did encounter someone who offered 40k cc for a Doovoo. Can we really say that it is fair who those who spent a lot of cc just to obtain one of these creatures? If these players did return back, would they be happy to find out that they spent that much cc when it is worth 1k cc due to the re-releases?

I believe that any creature that is tagged as retired should remain that way. If these creatures are to return, it would discourage long time players should they ever return. For example, I have a Valenbun from 2015 that unfortunately passed away. I planned to resurrect it, but due to the re-release, resurrecting my Valenbun would be pointless since it is no longer worth its value. According to Budgie's creature pricing, the Valenbun was once priced as 200-300 cc. Due to the rerelease though, it is worth 100-150 cc. Why should I resurrect these retired creatures when they can be available again anytime? While there was a vote regarding re-releases, it does not represent the entirety of eggcave users. Most of the users who voted were most likely from later years of eggcave. If we are to include the users from the early days of eggcave, I am sure that most of them would disapprove of the re-release due to the time, effort, and money spent on getting these creatures.

cranberrycat1 • 24 July 2022 at 12:00 PM

In my opinion I think rereleases are a good idea because for newer players like me it is hard to get creatures from way back in the earlier time of egg cave

Fairness
It is fair to those who have recently joined. With your Doovoo example, most of the newer people did not have a Doovoo and the people that did have a Doovoo where either inactive or where not willing to sell it so the Doovoo didn’t circulate like it once did and many players do not want to buy Doovoo for 75k+ cc it is just to much. And even after the rerelease the Doovoo a price was still pretty high, it went for about 10k cc.

Decrease in Value
I think it is better for the newer players that their is a decrease in value or the creatures would be to hard to obtain causing a lot of people to quit egg cave wich would be bad for the whole game. And it is not that likely that the old users will all come back. Some people also prefer to have the original release date so they would pay extra for the originals.

I also think retired creatures should stay retired, but I also think that some need to be rereleased so that they can remain in circulation.

If you have any questions on what I said please let me know I might be able to answer them @raretreasurehunter56

murmurw • 24 July 2022 at 12:05 PM

@raretreasurehunter56
That’s totally fine ^^ Though, my response might be a little misunderstood because of my wording & also, differences of opinions always happen 😊
Ill give a quick response & what I feel like, as a later player of course, I admit that many older users might have differing opinions.

1. I think I was trying to make the point that even though people were offering tons of CC, it was still difficult finding someone to SELL one (like a Doovoo, Macbot, Ignis, etc.)
- Also, a site must be able to keep older users & attract new users. The rarity of creature must be maintained for a stable economy, however, before releases, the site can only cater to one, the older users. I’ve also seen many older users support rereleases, due to wanting more than just one of a creature they rlly like.

2. Of course it isn’t fair, however, once again, the site isn’t supposed to cater to older users & not everything can be fair, can it? I also believe many people have talked about wanting EggCave to do rereleases in the forums before the EggCave team ever mentioned rereleases, making me believe that the general users do have a problem with how unobtainable certain creatures are.
- Also, later you mention how older users will disapprove of this while mentioning that mainly newer users support rereleases , but you also have to take into account the users in the middle into this (maybe joining around 2015-2017??). Because MANY older users have quit since long ago, i don't exactly think its fair to majorly take the standpoint of older users. The impossibility of getting a creature before rereleases is a factor that deters new users too, making this site become more & more obsolete.
- Retired creatures wont always be available at random, the reason rereleases exist is to make sure that users are happy while also maintaining a stable economy. In one of the posts I’ve linked before, they give a few caps & requirements on rereleases. Also, Budgies Guide hasn’t been updated since last year & VEND, I’m not too sure what’s happening with that, since I’ve only used it a couple times before & never thought it was worth it in the current pools since the tokens take a while to obtain, I think the effort can be considered equivalent to the worth of the creatures.
- “While there was a vote regarding re-releases, it does not represent the entirety of eggcave users.” I believe there’s a misconception here, I agree that maybe many of the users that voted are from the later years, I disagree on how its implied that EggCave should’ve found something else that could please everyone instead of rereleases. At that time, 92% of the users agreed to continue with rereleases, if EggCave didn’t continue with rereleases, I feel like more than 50% of those 92% who agreed will be angered by that. Nothing can please everyone. Rereleases are just a compromise.

* also, apologies if the quoting sounds a bit rude

Edit: Also, I wanted to point something out that you said in the first post, “ Is this 're-release' really fair to players who obtained these creatures when it was first released?” I just feel like my response is, is it fair that later users never even had the same opportunity older users did to obtain them? And now have to pay 10x more than older players did? Not exactly. This point is a little wonky imo, but I just felt this statement has multiple answers to it.
Thank you for this discussion though, I feel like its really thought provoking ^^

pwuffy • 24 July 2022 at 3:16 PM

@raretreasurehunter56 welcome back to egg cave! a lot has changed so if you have any questions/need any help feel free to drop me a msg 😊

i will preface this by saying i do agree wholeheartedly with pretty much everything @murmurw said so i will try not to repeat what she said too much XD but well stated!

i am an "old" user, i created my first account in march 2010, less than a year after the site's creation, so i have been around for many old creature releases and even owned some of these creatures that massively inflated in value like tines, macbots, doovoos, onnys, etc. and while i traded/gave many of my old "rare" creatures away i do recognize that i have some un-rereleased old creatures in my cove that are still very valuable to this day. would i mind if they got rereleased? personally, not really... for one thing, i certainly did not work hard for all of these creatures. some were gifted to me, or i won a giveaway/contest for them. some of them i DID work quite hard for, not just the amount of creatures/CC i spent on the trade itself, but the amount of time i spent scouring the forums/trading post/people's coves for an UFT one (such as my balrog). but even then, i didn't want these creatures just because they are valuable, i wanted them because i love the art style and their design, because they match my preferred aesthetic. so i am fine with rereleases, as long as they are done fairly enough that the rereleased creatures still hold some rarity, because i think people should have a reasonable chance at acquiring their dream creatures without waiting for literally years for one to MAYBE go UFT, and even if it does go UFT, they would have to spend $800 worth of CC/creatures or more to even have a chance at an acceptable trade.

it also did help to revive trading a bit imo, although admittedly trading is very CC-focused now which is regrettable because i always found trading creatures for creatures to be more enjoyable, but i do try to trade creatures for creatures whenever possible instead of creatures for CC. but before the rereleases, trading felt pretty dead, and people seemed pretty demotivated to find their dreamies. many of the people who owned onnys/macbots/doovoos quit the game LONG ago, and even if they returned, who's to say they would ever want to trade their creatures away? so trading was very stagnant.

that's coupled with the fact that creatures are no longer RELEASING to be as rare as they once were. with the changes to the cave that allow people to visit more than 10 times a day, and monthlies being available all month (with CSPs being available again at the end of the year to buy) when they used to be available for a week or two at most, it was not as easy for people to get decent trading fodder, as cave monthlies these days are usually not worth very much. this is kind of a whole separate issue, that i think is still somewhat of a problem even after rereleases, but just trying to prove my point about how stagnant trading got. newer players had a very low chance of trading for any old "rare" creatures, even if they had already been playing for a few years.

also as a last addition, i know @murmurw already linked the polls from the rerelease trial but i want to link this as well:
https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/55724
this topic is from a debate about rereleases in 2015, and even then you can see in the poll an overwhelming majority of people voted in favor of BOTH cave and cash shop rereleases. yes, the voting is slightly skewed since you can still vote on this topic even to this day, but i can vouch that the last time i checked this topic which was in 2019 or 2020, the numbers were very similar (i believe about 70% in favor of rereleases). so i personally disagree with the sentiment that only newer players want rereleases! older players want them too 😊

lastly, i totally understand this topic is pretty controversial and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. some people are never going to be okay with rereleases, and that's okay. this is just the best solution that ian & the egg cave team came up with for now after MANY many many topics and discussions on the issue over the years. sadly you can't please everyone, but overall the majority of the site is/was in favor of rereleases, so that is the opinion that ended up winning. but i respect your opinion at the end of the day, and i apologize for the wall of text, i enjoy rambling :')

metaphor • 14 August 2022 at 12:00 AM

It just really isn't sustainable to have creatures worth 75,000 CC. That's real money currency. If it were just one creature going for that or something close to it, that'd be one thing, but it's a good chunk of old retired creatures. I might also feel a lot differently if EC were more valuable and that that most of these creatures could be obtained using the in-game currency, but let's face it, you can't really do much with EC. when new users come to the website and see that 75% of creatures are off limits to them due to a paywall of sorts, that's not the best look, especially for a website that touts itself as free. I'm not even saying this from the perspective of what's fair; I'm speaking from what's practical for a site's long-term growth. I also say this as someone who traded many names and creatures for an Onny several years ago. I don't mind that they were ultimately re-released. That's the risk you take when you want something in low supply but high demand and have no other way to obtain it.

That's just my two cents.

heatherm19 • 15 August 2022 at 4:08 AM

@metaphor "It just really isn't sustainable to have creatures worth 75,000 CC."

Yes. Yes yes yes. Exactly.

I understand the idea of older players not wanting their super-valuable old creatures to drop in value, but what about all the newer players? Simple fact is, this is an internet game, and with users leaving the game or just going inactive or on hiatus (seems to be a lot of that lately) Eggcave as a game would suffer if it didn't bring in new players. And new players aren't likely to stick around if they see that the vast majority of creatures in the game are only obtainable for literally hundreds of *real* dollars. Keep the older, often inactive players the richest while alienating newer users, that's just not a good business model.

As a newer user myself, I was SO excited to see the immense variety of creatures on this site. It was so exciting to look forward to collecting them and raising them, the artwork is awesome and impressive on so many of them... And then I found out that out of 970+ different creatures in the game, only about 100 were *actually* available from the game itself. .... That's roughly 89% of all released creatures *not* available for newer users, unless they manage to trade for it or win an auction. And with the Trade Center being dominated by 'CC only' trades, that further discourages newer users who don't have the ability to pay tons of real-life money on virtual creatures.

I've stuck around, and become absolutely addicted to this game, in part because of re-releases. Because of the hope that completely-unobtainable creatures will become obtainable through these re-releases, and because of the absolute joy I've experienced when some of my top 'never going to happen' creatures got re-released. I see these re-releases, and I look back at the blog posts to see what's been re-released in the past, and I actually feel excited about waiting to see what's going to be re-released next and hopeful that my ridiculous wishlist may actually have a chance because of these re-releases.

twilightshine • 18 August 2022 at 10:05 PM

@raretreasurehunter56
Simply put,
who is going to spend 75k CC on an old creature?

Almost nobody.

Yes, I get that older players don't want to sell their hard earned critters for less then they're actually worth, but for newer players, or even old-ish players, it's ridiculous to expect them to pay that much for an older creature.

So in this scenario, no one wins, because new players can't get their creatures without paying close to 800 dollars in real money, which, I don't think a lot of people realize is an absolutely ridiculous amount for a few pretty pixels. Yes, you can get CC without paying that much, but it's hard for a. students in middle/high school who are busy, tired, and don't have time to grind forever only to get only one creature on their wishlist. OR b) working people who are busy tired, and also don't have time to grind forever only to get only one creature on their wishlist, and additionally don't have 800 dollars in disposable income to spend on a virtual game for a few pretty pixels.

I think that the rerelease creatures are, in fact, fair, because after they are rereleased, there is certainty that they won't be released again for a very long time, essentially resetting the price. Literally days after the last rerelease creatures are sold, the value climbs roughly 200CC. And, also, rarity doesn't necessarily mean demand. The Onny, for example, is still really valuable, even though it was just pretty recently released.

Also, some people are still interested in the original creatures for the dates, so the older creatures can still be sold for more than the rerelease ones.

It's a win win for older players and new 😊

heatherm19 • 19 August 2022 at 2:02 AM

I'd also like to mention that, so far, I haven't seen any rerelease just completely destroy a creature's worth. Rereleased creatures are still valuable, it's not like they are suddenly the same level as cave-commons. Anyone with a rereleased creature can still get a pretty good profit in trade. And yes, some people do care about dates, so the 'original release' creatures are still going to be more valuable than the re-release.

The difference now is, while rereleased creatures are still plenty valuable, they are actually *obtainable* for more than a tiny handful of people. I highly doubt there would be more than one or two players actually *able* to pay 75k CC for a single creature, which means the market stagnates: Older players own these theoretically super-valuable creatures that they can't actually trade/sell because they are *too* valuable for anyone to afford. After their rerelease Doovoos were still trading for 15k+ CC, which is still over a hundred dollars in *real* money. That's still pretty darn valuable. It's just that now 'valuable' is not equal to 'completely literally unobtainable'.