⚠️ Waveless Re-Releases: a different approach ⚠️

silvia • 23 February 2024 at 1:56 PM

• Let's say the truth, when re-releases happened, we were all pretty happy about it. There was an initial testing period and many changes were made (for example, the one minute waiting time), and I feel like after so many years, waves became quite stressful a literal race against the clock (and against other players, very often). Users will deprive themselves of sleep to be on time because usually they can be on just during one wave or two, and in any case some of these creatures get out of stock so fast one doesn't have the time to say quidditch yeep. This is my personal take on how to rework the wave re-release system into a wave-less one instead.


• Step one: first of all, I propose for the whole concept of waves to be deleted. Why? For various reasons - to eliminate the stress that comes with "be on time" for a wave, and also to allow people to get their favourite CSPs also in special dates (as with the wave system, you can only get re-releases on the 1st of every month and maybe a few days after (If lucky). What If someone wants to adopt a creature on the day of their birthday? When these creatures were released for the first time, they were in the Cash Shop for the whole month, allowing for that to happen... with waves, instead, that is impossible.


• Step two: would be to allow each user to only buy ONE creature per specie. So If clocat and lal get re-released, user @myusernameisweird (a name of fantasy lol), will be able to buy anytime during the month of March, one clocat and one lal. Of course, this is because we have a "limited stock amount" of these creatures and it is only fair to allow everyone to get a shot at getting one before a few users manage to snag them all away.

I know many of you will be against this, but I think it would be beneficial, as it will avoid creature hoarding (and reselling) by the hand of just a few users, and will encourage more trading versus the pay to win problem (as someone said, everything you have to do on EggCave right now to get something it to just pay real money for it and you will have it). Of course, snagging multiple creatures via a friend's help would be prohibited too (not to mention, right now we have a one minute limit when buying a re-release, which users could easily bypass by purchasing another one right away with a side account). This way, I feel like everyone would have a chance to get their preferred CSP, without feeling the anxiety that comes from "being on time on a wave's time". I think this could be tested for a while to see how it can impact trading, the economy, and the number of bought re-releases.


• Step Three: ...additionally, If the "just one csp per user" is too much for you guys, I propose setting the price of each CSP like the original release price, so 500CC for the first bought creature of that specie, and raising it by 500CC for each new purchase. So you want two or three clocats? You pay your first one 500CC, the second 1000CC, and the third 1500CC (If you're willing to). I think a limit of 3 CSPs per user per specie, in that case, would be good (as the value of these creatures, after they retire, goes towards 1500CC by resellers anyways). This would be to discourage excessively hoarding by a few users versus giving everyone a chance to buy a re-released creature. Raising the price like this also allow for the creature not to raise too much in number as in population, while giving everyone a chance of buying at least one CSP will prevent the people that usually miss the waves from voting a recently re-released creature again.


• End Notes: Ultimately, I am suggesting this because I agree that effort is important when playing a game, but it doesn't make sense to make re-releases this stressful. Is it to avoid problems like sleep deprivation, anxiety, nastiness about it (some get the creatures because they can and manage to hoard a few with a friend's help or two, while others can't because they aren't on during a wave or don't have a friend to ask for help, etc etc), crazy inflation and profit hoarding. After all, newly released CSPs sit comfortably in the Cash Shop for the whole month so it would make sense for re-releases to be special yet attainable and certainly getting them shouldn't be anxiety-inducing! Users' well being counts first and foremost too, so I'm really, really hoping this will at least taken into consideration (If not in this exact way, in a way that can accommodate users and their well-being more). If you have some time, @Ian, I'd really love to know your input on this. 🙏

wonder404exe • 23 February 2024 at 2:10 PM

@silvia
i feel like the "only one rerelease per user (no side accounts)" is a bit too harsh
i like the 500CC 1000CC 1500CC idea because i know of a few people who really like some creatures
Hoarding creatures and waiting for the price to grow is one problem
but some users just like the creature and doesnt plan to resell them
im not against it tho i just think one is a lil too low (maybe two is good)
I wanted a few rereleases on a date (i always buy rerelease i like on the first day incase they are gone the next day) i they got takin so quick lol
the gobbler got taken light speed bcs most ppl wanted to resell them

silvia • 23 February 2024 at 2:18 PM

Yeah, I don't like limiting it would be very nice as well (imo, I'd just remove the "sold in limited stock / quantity rule" and just make them stay in the Cash Shop all month like regular csps, but people would be probably against that as well), I just wish we were more reasonable, avoiding hoarding and inflation reselling so to give others a chance too... because of how things are right now, some people don't get even one single chance. I get it that's how economy works, but this is a game so... why not make it a little more accessible for everyone? 😉 Most of all, I'm most worried about the users' mental and physical health. I had some friends talk about having to lose sleep to be able to catch a wave or risking it during work, so... yeah.

Thanks for your input my dude! ✨🙏

twinkle • 23 February 2024 at 4:43 PM

@silvia
Thank you for bringing this up! 😊 I support the idea of not having waves but I’m not so sure about the part where we can only buy one per month, I totally understand why though. Even if it promotes trading, what are the chances that users will sell their only rerelease ;w; and if they would, they would also price them heavily :’c I used to think that “hoarders” are bad but they really do help other users obtain the creatures they like, e.g. there are times when I regret not buying from the CSP and bought from resellers instead 😊 3 would probably be a good cap, especially for users who love collecting one per gender~ Anyway, this is an interesting suggestion and I’ll be following along to read what others think about this ❤️

silvia • 23 February 2024 at 5:06 PM

Thank you for stopping by!

Yeah, I brought up the one per person cap only If we take into consideration the "limited stock amount" thing, because with a limited stock it makes more sense to have a cap... If we did have more stock or unlimited stock plus a 3 per person per specie cap with a smaller price increase, though, I think we'd be fine. 😊 Again, I put a greater increase in price especially considering that we have a limited stock amount... because If the creatures get bought too fast, then of course some people with less time on their hands will left with nothing at all. Sadly I don't really know how to make it work while we still have the limited stock feature, as too little of a price increase would mean some people will still be able to obtain these creatures easily by just spending real money while others with less time on their hands or a smaller income will be left with a "sold out" screen. 😞 If the stock wasn't limited, I'd agree for the price to be lessened as well, but in this case no, I think a bigger price will work in saving some creatures for these that would just want to buy one (again, I'd be totally up for removing the limited stock thing instead, haha).

kataclysm • 23 February 2024 at 5:11 PM

I get a little worried about the mental state of EC users too. LOL.

But in all seriousness, I've known lots of people to deprive themselves of sleep, to put off having meals, to ignore real life responsibilities (homework, essays, actual irl work duties). It is the responsibility of those own users/their parents to do anything about that kind of behaviour, but I agree that sites can do better to make themselves less addicting. It's not just re-releases that trigger this behaviour, obviously. I've known double feed days to have the same effect.

All that said, as someone who doesn't share the EC time zone, I've given up on even bothering with re-releases because they come out at 5am in the morning for me. I'm not depriving myself of sleep for the sake of a virtual pet, so I'm not going to be able to access those pets during their release. I've had to ask pals to buy eggs on my behalf when I've been really keen for a creature, and that doesn't feel right to me. A feature of this site is inaccessible to me, so I'm enthusiastic to see a change that will make those creatures more accessible. I gather that adding the secondary waves was the first attempt to make those eggs more accessible, but i don't think it made enough of a change as highly desired eggs will remain out of reach regardless.

I personally love the idea of eggs becoming increasingly more expensive with each purchase. It doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of eggcave to hoard pets and resell them at extortionate prices, so I'm in support of taking preventative measures where that's concerned. Knowing of some users that want to have a creature frozen in every stage, I would suggest a soft limit of 5 creatures per user. People may want to buy them as gifts, donations, trade fodder, so I think 5 is a pretty good amount. I'd be surprised if @Ian went in on a creature limit, but it occurs during events and whatnot so I think it's within the realm of possibility.

On the other hand, if the price continues to go up, it'll be so unappealing to buy those creatures for inflated prices, instead of trading with other users for them, which feels much more community based. So maybe a limit isn't required at all.

My overall takeaway is that I fully support making re-releases more accessible to those of us in different timezones and with mixed availability, and that gradually inflating the price in the store could have a positive impact on our trading community. 💰

silvia • 23 February 2024 at 5:26 PM

Such an exhaustive reply! Thank you very much for sharing your opinions on the matter, I'm really, really hopeful for a chance of a change. 💖

I also feel like a limit isn't exactly in EggCave's spirit, but as I mentioned the problem lies in the fact that when re-releases happen, we have them in limited quantity and so it would be very difficult to give everyone a chance to get at least one while allowing everyone to buy / get too many. Sadly I'd say. 😞 Truth to be told, I think it would do the site's finances and also its trading economy a lot of good to remove that limit or to at least increase the stock's quantity, put a cap of 5 like you mentioned, and raise the price for every purchase. Maybe If the stock was big enough or If the limit was removed, we could have a price increase that is a bit less expensive (+200CC per purchase, perhaps?). So 1st CSP would be 500CC, 2nd 700CC, 3rd 900CC, 4th 1100CC and 5th 1300CC. This would especially make sense for a creature that could be voted and re-released while its value hasn't even reached 1000CC in the trading economy yet (like someone mentioned in the blog yesterday).

That said, I also agree that it is our responsibility to take care of our mental & physical health, but... yeah. Since different timezone(s) don't give everyone the same possibilities, I think it would be also good If the EC team could reach out to their users in a better and different way.

dragrawr • 23 February 2024 at 6:14 PM

@silvia I like your step 3 idea. I think just one won't be enough, sadly. I think 3 like @twinkle said would be a good cap!!

I really like the idea of it starting off at 500. And it would be nice if *at least one* was available to user's instead of the time constraint. Because I get the "wave" idea since population can only double, but if you're going to re-release everytime it is up on the block again that idea is null and void. I think, if population didn't reach cap, at the end of the month there could a cut off (a week before the month ends) where you can longer buy one for 500 yourself, and it transforms into the "wave" feature of whatever is leftover. That way, the site can still make money off the collectors XD

summarizing thought: I support re-releases but the "wave" feature is pretty unfair to a lot of users, and collectors go a little too crazy X3

also
it would be fun to set 1 or 2 of each re-release aside and have the lottery like we do every month. :]

prairie • 23 February 2024 at 6:55 PM

@silvia

"I feel like after so many years, waves became quite stressful a literal race against the clock"
Agreed; in the beginning and with High-demand creatures (nym, gobbler, pixgog). However I'd argue that over time, waves have VASTLY spread out and creatures are often available weeks if not the entire month.
I mean, just look at the Valgrun and Luvlei; both haven't been released before but both are only around 50% taken from the full stock.

I personally think keeping waves is fine. It limits the initial race to the first day mainly, then after that most times it settles.
Eliminating waves would "allow people to get their favorite CSPs also in special dates (as with the wave system, you can only get re-releases on the 1st of every month and maybe a few days after (If lucky)"
Honestly, if you eliminate waves? It'd take away the ability to get a specific creature all together on a different day depending on how popular it is. And I know you have a whole solution for that with the "1 creature per species and I'll get to that.

"allow each user to only buy ONE creature per species........... anytime during the month of March, [one of each species]"
Absolutely hard pass for me. This just encourages cheating and using multiple accounts.
Also; yeah. I am one of those people who'd try to get up to 2-4 creatures per re-release. Why?: because I like the creature, want one of each stage, and would like at least one for trading if it's popular. OF COURSE I'm going to try to get all 2-4 during re-release, I want to have my collection but also further my trading stock. Is it the biggest deal to me personally if I don't get the one for trading? No, but it would be nice.
In the end, this cap would honestly cause more problems if you ask me, as people would try to get friends help, try to create multiple accounts... and of course, if mods find that out, the creature would be taken away, and people would make a fuss about their CC and then there's the matter of 'stock coming back'.
Overall, in my opinion; pass. It'll get messy. The only times I've seen people hoard buy for resell was in the beginning and when 'big creatures' come out.

Step Three is a pass for me, but I'm more indecisive on it. Its literally the same cost if you *didn't* do that, IF YOU BUY 3. (which is what I usually want so I'm chill overall)
But if you buy anymore than that you REALLY get the short end of the stick, even for trading (unless of course, you bump the resell value which is what I feel would happen) In the end I'm on the fence on option 3.

I personally think things are A-OK as is. If I was to make a cap at all, I'd put it at 3-4.
If anything, I think the cycle time of 2 years is too soon. At this rate, some species will not be rereleased at all. But then again, that means the value will get forced to a very high price and then become demanded thus turning into a doovoo/macbot - then rerelease would happen likely.
but that's me.


In the end, I think the re-release craze has died down significantly and I haven't seen the stuff sell out as fast. Of course, popular creatures will always sell fast; but that's popularity and demand for you.

(side note: I like dragrawr's idea of having re-release creatures available in the lottery too)

silvia • 24 February 2024 at 2:22 AM

As I said in other posts, I'm tilting towards a bigger cap as well, providing that bigger cap provides everyone a chance to get at least one CSP per specie first. So I really like your idea of allowing that and then starting the wave (so allowing everyone one and after that, If there's still stock, to allow users to buy multiple until there isn't stock anymore). I think that method wouldn't be perfect as I fear these creatures won't be accessible in specific dates, but it's a very, very nice way to think about this. Thank you very much for giving your input. 😊

I also never thought about putting re-released creatures in lottery too! it's a very nice idea👍 ...but I think it wouldn't solve the problems we have as only 3 people could get it. The others would be left stressing about catching a wave, still.




*nods slowly* Well, I didn't expect everyone to like this idea and I respect your opinion in the matter (nor will I try to change your mind about it). I think you make good points, but I agree to disagree as well on some points, as for some creatures (like for example the gobbler), they were all out of stock the first day; and the same day, people were putting these gobblers in the trade center at double the price (3000CC If I do recall correctly), and really, I hardly think that is fair towards these that couldn't just "be on time" for a wave. The point is to be more accommodating also towards newer users or users with a smaller budget (from a old user's perspective waves might not be so hard, challenging yes, but not impossible, as often we don't need one to keep as we already have it in our collections) but seeing it from a newbie's perspective and with the will to collect all, well, it would definitely cause some stress. So I really, really think maybe it's worth to at least take into consideration a few of these ideas and test them out to see If a change can be positive or not. If it doesn't work, then we can always revert to status quo (also not saying it has to be my way, but I think it's important to gather opinions and see If there's a better way to do this). ✨

Ultimately you can't find a way to make everyone happy, but we can at least try to think something to prevent the problems I mentioned in first post as to be more careful on an approach that makes it less anxiety inducing for old and new users alike. That's a really, really pressing matter for me as even though I don't collect anymore, it's stress-inducing even seeing the people losing sleep over it. 🙏

Edit: forgot the address the cheating / scamming problem, which is a pretty big deal! I think staffers can pretty easily see If it's a man that claims a creature from the cash shop park, or we could make the users verify before purchasing (taking into consideration, though, there are users that didn't verify because of lack of a phone or because unwilling to do so). In any case, even now and as we are there could be cheating via using friends / side accounts to claim a re-release before the one minute time limit so... yeah. Cheating via side accounts will happen any way and any system we use, the important thing is to be able to catch / prevent that.

shrimp • 6 March 2024 at 3:43 PM

A short response to this, but I'm very much in favor of the '1 Per User' limit as it stops the hoarding/reselling of them when users stay up to get them en masse on the waves, and also helps to encourage trading for secondaries of that species! As someone cursed with a mid-month birthday, I really like to have CSPs adopted on that date, but it's hard with rereleases that sell out within the first day or two.

The scaling price for doubles/triples is also an amazing idea as it not necessarily puts a punishment on buying the creature, but allows for those who'd like one to get it for a reasonable price, as well as to get a secondary at a higher cost if they deem it worthwhile.

For example on the "encourage trading" aspect/idea of this, I stayed up late to get my rerelease Nym, and then watched as they almost immediately sold out. I didn't mind it, but it did mean that I had to barter for quite a bit to get a second one through trading!

silvia • 6 March 2024 at 4:21 PM

Thank you very much for posting, I was surprised and also quite interested in your post, as I though most people would be against the "only one re-release per user" thing as we have tons of collectors. Totally thought no one else would like such a feature. 😋 Yeah, I thought about it because although I feel like people should be allowed to buy as many as they want / can, it's also true re-releases are a bit special, being released in limited quantity, so it could be nice to give everyone a chance to buy one before they're all gone (speaking especially for the ones that get sold in an hot minute). Glad you liked the idea and thank you very much for the ping. (>//////<)/

shrimp • 6 March 2024 at 4:24 PM

I'm definitely one of those collectors haha but I like to trade and talk to people a lot, and just silently buying or getting CC and buying rereleases for 1000CC each doesn't give me a lot of room for social opportunities! Rereleases that are more popular will almost always get rereleased again down the line, so people wouldn't need to worry about never getting one, but they may just have to wait and adjust their goals! ₊˚⊹☆ And of course - love to see these discussion topics whenever I remember the suggestions forum exists!

heatherm19 • 6 March 2024 at 4:48 PM

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really don't understand what's so bad about getting a rerelease to sell/trade it? I get that on the extreme end it would be bad if a small group of users snatched up 100% of the stock just to trade it for way more... But does that *really* happen often? There is a 1-minute cooldown every single time you buy a rerelease. When it comes to the more popular rereleases, the ones where 'waves' are actually an issue because they get sold out so quick, it's really not *possible* to get a ton at once because of the cooldown. Unless I'm missing some loophole that doesn't require the cooldown?
And besides that, why is stimulating the trade economy bad? Personally I would think it would be worse on the userbase as a whole if everyone *only* bought one to keep and no one had any to trade, wouldn't that put it right back where it was before rereleases where users literally couldn't get the creature even through trades?

All that said, I understand why waves can be stressful, especially for people who really can't plan to be on at specific times. I do *not* support a low cap for reasons stated above, but some way to draw out the release more so more people have a chance to get them would be helpful. I think putting some 'aside' for the lottery would be good, but probably not enough to change much.

(And I'd just like to note here, today is the 6th and the rerelease Clocat and Lal *both* have less than 50% of their stock taken so far. I've seen the super rare rereleases go extremely fast (hello macbot/doovoo!) but I also see that a lot of the rereleases lately just sit there. Which makes the whole waves issue not an issue at all, for those.)

silvia • 6 March 2024 at 5:21 PM

Haha true, in the end all creatures will be re-released at one point so it will totally be possible to get them with time & patience, I guess it's just a bit bad when there's the chance and an user tries and get nothing while maybe someone else manages to get, like, three or four (with friends' help as well). And the one left with nothing will have to wait maybe 6+ years because they missed a wave of weren't fast enough. These suggestions were made mostly taking into account the feelings of users and also their time / effort in it. I just think (personally) it would be nice to give everyone a chance instead of turning it into a competition between users. 😊 That said, as the re-released creatures' population grows (with each re-release), hopefully next re-release occasion they might be released in more quantity (didn't think about that, now we also have LoVs that prevents these creatures from dying and decreasing population).




You're not in the minority, I think, as most people (as far I know) will try to get an extra or two for re-selling purposes (and, again, I'm not against it as it how the economy works here, however, with some creatures the reselling part was especially nasty imo - take the gobbler, they were snatched very fast and then put in the trading center the same day of release for, like, 3000CC+). It's good to be able to trade with people that got a bunch for retrading purpose, the thing I don't personally like If that a specific person would have to spend so much more because of a timing issue (not being able to catch a wave, not being fast enough, etc etc... it's like punishing some users for having less time or being in a different timezone, when they might have the means to buy one If it wasn't for the rhythm of things) ...I just think it would be nice to at least give an equal chance to buy one to everyone without having to stress over it, that's all. But I do understand where you come from, too. I'm not saying this is the way, mind you, it's just... it feels like there could be room for improvement, you know? 😉

And yes, I think it's possible to bypass the timer thing (one way or another, even with a cap), as I said. Example, an user could give the CC to multiple friends to buy the creature for them (and end up with 5 in one minute), or they could use side accounts, etc etc... not saying this is the case, but there aren't rules set to prevent that, so it might as well happen without consequences. For that reason I suggested also the price increase thing.

That said, as prairie said, "things have calmed down" after some years, so now we can see the lal and clocat still on - this is cool, but I feel like it still doesn't solve everything. As I said it would be really nice to be able to steal a creature in a specific date, for example last of the month, and people of course couldn't be sure the creature would still be available in that day. So... yeah, room for improvement, there's still a lot of it I think.