Ethics of not adopting eggs you find in Cave?

merit • 3 days ago

Hi,

I have a soft heart and a fragile conscience. (As an example, I still feel guilty for auctioning off a handful of mortal commons early on, because I can't ensure their safety anymore.) So I try to be as caring towards Egg Cave pets as I can.

With this in mind, I'm wondering about the consequences of approaching the cave without stealing the egg you find there.

A few questions:

1. From a website perspective, is the egg actually generated before it's successfully named? Like, does it get an ID number?

2. Do un-adopted individuals appear to ther users? For example, let's say I approached a nonbinary Star Elge, but it disappeared before I could name it. Would that same nonbinary Star Elge appear in someone else's Cave approach, or is it just gone?

3. From an in-universe perspective, will the egg be alright if it's left alone? We know from the Adoption Center that abandoned pets may not make it on their own. But if the egg is never adopted, does it have the same chance as any other wild pet of its species?

4. Do eggs sense a user's approach? If so, do you think they're disappointed if they're not adopted?

As you can see, I think too much about this. Would love to hear other people's thoughts!


DISCLAIMER: This topic is not meant to be a judgement towards anyone or any particular action. There are things I wouldn't personally do on Egg Cave, but that doesn't mean I judge other people for doing those things. Please refrain from judging the actions of other in this thread.

daisycat • 3 days ago

@merit
I totally get what you're saying and I admire your soft heart. ❤️ I feel very similarly in many areas of my life.

1. I believe the egg only gets an ID once you steal it. For example, if you stole it immediately, say the ID would be 10, but if you stole it after taking a couple minutes to name it, and a few other players happened to steal eggs during that time, the ID may be 15. I believe only the image of the egg is generated in order to show you what "could be" IF you steal it.

2. I believe the eggs generated are random, but also with certain percentage chances or times for specific creatures. So I believe a star Elge that appears for you may only appear for another player at random, too. If you saw one and didn't adopt it, I don't think it means that the same one will appear for another player.

3. I'd like to think that the egg will be okay if it's not stolen. You can view it like it's still there, healthy, waiting, comfortable in the cave, and will be stolen one day. Since there are so many types of creatures to collect, expanding your cove gets costly, and some may not want many multiples of the same creatures, it feels like there could be justification to leave the egg. The same species may be generated for another player and they may steal it and you can view that egg as being the same one that you had left, but now it's got a home! On another pet site I play, I like to keep every pet I get... anything I hatched, anything gifted, randomized pets opened from site gift baskets, any in the market or adoption center that I fixate on too long and just think they're soo cute and precious (I've started avoiding this for that reason lol, there's also kinda a pet limit here too). I get very, very sentimental and emotional with them, even though I'm aware they're not real and it's "just a game". So for each player, I think it just depends on the game, too. I don't steal every egg here, but I also don't ever want to put any in the Adoption Center, and I still feel badly about the very first few star creatures I auctioned off as a newbie. When I give creature gifts, I always hope that they really are going to a good home and that the player will cherish them, even though they DO belong to that player now to do whatever they want with them.

4. For my own sake, I like to think that eggs here are not disappointed if someone doesn't take them. They'll still be there, they're okay, they are totally fine just waiting for the next player to come by. :-D

snowywinter • 3 days ago

Aw, Merit, that is really sweet you think as deeply as you do about these creatures.
(I hear ya, I adopted out one of my favorite creatures to a buddy, went on hiatus, came back to find out they did too, all their mortals had died... and I've had a hard time letting anything go since.)
That being said even though I feel like these don't even have a shred of A.I. intelligence, I still find myself frantically feeding mortals trying to keep them alive.
I think most of the sentiment otherwise (in general, around the site,) comes from our personal attachments, and the lore we create.

On to your main question.
From what I can remember a while back, (as best I can recall, a mod answering someone,) eggs in the Cave and Asteroid are unique to each individual player. No one else will see them. In the Cave, when it times out, it is gone forever.
The Oasis however is where all players can see the same egg. (As well as in the Adoption Center.)

There is the unique generation ID when an egg is generated in the Cave (and Oasis) before you name it and it gets its permanent numeric URL. It's a lot easier on PC. I miss being on a computer because it's so much harder on tablet to be aware of them, and there are some interesting ones generated sometimes. For example, That's how the creature in my feed list got her name Saint Ruin Time. The generation URL. I thought it was funny, imagining there has to be quite the story behind a name like that. Some generation URLs I just take notes on and let them pass, but some are so quirky, I just *have* to catch and bring into existence.

I'd think in-universe (of the eggs that aren't picked up) the creatures will grow up in the wild, thriving on their own without human interference. Or that of the domestic species there's enough caring Arkians, that they won't be alone for long.
(To me personally, it's easier to let them be in the cosmic digital soup, then bring one into being and have it possibly end up cold and alone forgotten in a graveyard. - Like to me it's not as if they're dead, but in a dark void, wondering what they did wrong. trapped. stripped of their identity, but still feeling hunger, cold, emotion.
Again... I know they don't even have AI sentience, but I can't help anthropormorphizing them >.<)

prettyiggy • 3 days ago

When I was younger, as a child & young adult, I was as tender-hearted as you are, but with years I've learned to apply that sensitivity to "living" beings, kittens or puppies, even plants, etc.

I think that cave eggs are randomly generated creatures, lacking the consciousness to feel rejected or abandoned. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just my take on it. Eggs that I do not choose to adopt will either dissolve into the nothingness from which they came or reappear to possibly be accepted by another player.

As a child, I felt guilty of "rejecting" things such as toys, but now see this as a fallacy of thinking/perceiving. I think that inanimate objects are incapable of "feeling" in the way that conscious beings do.

merit • 2 days ago

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses!

@daisycat

I think it makes a lot of sense to think of the eggs as just chilling in the cave, safe and unbothered! That's a comforting thought.

Also, in terms of those early star creatures you auctioned off: I like to think that any truly "in-demand" creatures are pretty safe to auction or trade. They're going to homes where they're specifically wanted, so I tend not to worry about them the same way. Not sure if that helps, just food for thought.


@snowywinter

I'm sorry to hear about the creature you adopted out to your friend! Were you ever able to revive that creature? If not, is it still possible?

I definitely agree that most if not all of our attachments to pets here comes from our own sentiments. I also know that they don't have any AI sentience, but I feel your struggle to anthropomorphize them.

The unique generation ID URL thing is really interesting! Maybe I'll try to see those the next time I go cave-diving.

I like the idea of eggs being fine if they're left alone, and I do think that's likely the case. What a sad view of the graveyard, though! I try to think of deceased creatures as being without a consciousness. Then again, that would mean they have no afterlife... I'll tell myself they're all just hanging out in a big room somewhere, chilling.


@prettyiggy

Logically I know you're right, and it's helpful to be reminded of that. It doesn't always quiet the sensitive, sentimental side of me that forms an attachment to these creatures, but it's good to keep in mind.

I also think that applying that sensitivity to real, living beings instead is a really good point!

snowywinter • 2 days ago

@merit

sadly no, I was too shy to reach out to the buddy when they came back other than to say hi. (I really cherished their friendship most of all and didn't want them thinking I just cared about the critter. So I left it as a "maybe I'll ask them next time" thing.) Then they left again and looks like they haven't been back in about two to three years.

Hoping you find some other interesting catch IDs ^^ It really can be fun making names out of them. (almost always with a bit of poetic liscense. I don't think I ever had a perfectly spelled out word before; it's about seeing patterns in the jumble.) (lol... I can do that, but yet I'm horrible at word scramble puzzles like Travels of Terror.)

You gave me a happy chuckle. It is a much lovelier thought (than them not being sentient or non-existent.) The creatures hanging around in a room like college students, but slackers. Sharing snacks, having on a movie.

I wish I could turn off my caring like Iggy did with inantimate things. It truly can be such a sap on energy sometimes. (but it's not like it ever took away from how much I cared about actual living things. Those always took priority.
It's more like this is carry-over/overflow (for how very much I can care at times.)
Conversely, sometimes it helps lighten the mental burden caring for something that doesn't have any *actual* consequences one way or the other. Like it gets heavy somestimes caring for (real)others where every little decision has huge long-lasting effects, no undo. Here, it gives a little momentay emotional reaction, but if we step outside of it, life goes on. For me, it's nice being able to focus my attention on something with low-emotional demand for a time. ...but the key is in finding that balance. Getting involved enough that it is a distraction from real burdens, but not letting myself become too sentimental about it to where it does become an emotional drain.)

prettyiggy • 1 day ago

I appreciate everyone's feedback as I truly empathize with fellow sensitive souls who look at life around us with a deeper, more felt sense than the other 85% of other humans.

What I can't understand, much less tolerate, are those people who are devoid of connection with, caring for or understanding & wanting the best of intentions for other living beings. I am truly horrified to hear of instances of abuse and violence, especially towards those who are defenseless like children, the elderly & all animals! I could write a novel on this topic

I know that I came into this lifetime as a sensitive soul (or empath) in order to learn some profound spiritual realizations. Perhaps most of us on this thread are here for the same reason?

mastergemma • 1 day ago

1. IDs are generated when you submit a name for a creature.

2. Snowywinter answered this question perfectly.

3. I do not believe there is a confirmed in-universe perspective for this. If you want my belief as a player, not a moderator, the Cave is a place in which time and space do not flow naturally, hence why we can find eggs from so many different locations there. The cave senses us approaching and grants us the ability to grab an egg that we will bond to and if we choose not to take it, it is sent back into the cave, back to where it was originally found.

4. If you want to make that a part of your lore for the website, go right ahead. There are some species that their archives mention that they can sense people touching their eggs too.

My more insane alternate theory is that it's us, the users, that are magical and are wishing for creatures every time we approach and we draw these creatures into the cave for us. Because we would have to be magical to be able to look after so many creatures with such insanely different needs. The Cosmomon is 100,000 kg and 50,000m!!! You cannot tell me that it isn't us that is making all of this happen.

merit • 1 day ago

@snowywinter

That's a shame. I respect that you prioritized the friendship, though!

I have gotten name inspiration from a couple of generation URLs already! It does definitely take poetic license, but I like the results so far. I ended up with BeanHR, IvezMehu, and Fun2Rate.

I definitely get what you mean about it being a balance. I also deal with the double-edged sword of relief/burden that comes with caring for inanimate things with no real consequences.


@prettyiggy

I know what you mean. It's hard to wrap my head around the terrible things people can do to each other, especially when life can throw tragedy at us on its own.

I do agree that it's important for sensitive souls to exist, maybe even as a balance for people with uncaring souls. Hopefully we can all do some good!


@mastergemma

Thank you for your input!

I think it makes a lot of sense that the Cave exists beyond time and space, and that it materializes eggs that we can choose to bond with or not. That's probably how I'll look at it from now on.

I'm definitely much happier believing that not only are the eggs fine if we don't collect them, but that they're not aware of/bothered by our presence unless we claim them.

It also makes sense to think of the users as magical! You're right, there's no way we could take care of all these critters if we weren't 😂

prettyiggy • 1 day ago

@merit,

As a child and through to the present, I often pick up on whatever other people are feeling. It's a good safeguard as intuition can offer a form of protective awareness when sensing individuals who are negative or have bad intentions. Because I live in a crime-ridden urban area, it's a necessary thing to have!

I still feel tremendous pain when I witness cruelty or others' (human or animals) being victimized. It can be heart-breaking, especially if the situation is such that I don't feel safe intervening. Then the guilt and regret eat away at me ~ it's always a tough judgment call. I don't carry weapons so it's often best to just say something cursory (if at all) & then back away.

It's not an easy world that we live in these days & there are too many unstable people with hair-trigger tempers who have a tendency to resort to violence. I'm currently planning on moving to a much safer, liberal small town on the east coast 💗