Essence of Youth and Baby Potion

kiryko • 10 November 2014 at 2:52 PM

That might be not new idea. If so sorry about that.
The idea is to have ability to decrease creature level
Essence of Youth might turn creature ONE lever below.
Baby Potion will turn creatures e in egg stage.
Freezes might be saved.
I guess it'll be usefullas it's very hard and sometimes nearly impossible to have egg of low stages of some creatures.
This potions will be sold in CSP as well as other potions but I'm not sure about the price.
Please tell me what you think aboutit.
@immortalraven
@poof
@bliss
@rashka
@misty_rose_

rashka • 10 November 2014 at 2:55 PM

@kiryko

i think it's a good idea! 😊

in that way if someone wants to do an egg collection it would be easier! 😃

mastergemma • 10 November 2014 at 5:11 PM

@kiryko
The only problem is that there's a worth to creatures being in the lower stages and this would change it since you would be able to immortalize the creature and then worry about its stage!

mishababy • 25 November 2014 at 1:29 PM

I really like the idea, except that I know it would be cash-shop-only if it were done. And it would have to be, wouldn't it? So that it would be harder for people to get - and then what's the point? To me, the purpose of these potions would be to allow us to have the creatures WE want to have, and that should be available to everyone. Putting them in the cash shop is not making them available to everyone. Also, I agree that it would wreak havoc on the market because those who could would buy and use them to try to make their creatures worth more - then they'd turn around and sell them. I'm not saying that I think this would be a bad thing. Markets have a way of balancing themselves out, and a sudden influx of early-stage immortal creatures would drive the price down eventually, would would in turn make them slightly more available perhaps. I don't know, whenever you start bringing site economics into the picture, the issue gets really sticky. I guess it'd be nice though, for cashers anyway.

bluenatty • 6 December 2014 at 10:47 PM

@kiryko

I'm not trying to be offensive, but this has been shot down many times before.

If they came into existence, the values of early-stage creatures would go down, therefore making super-rares, such as Tine or Jester eggs, only a small fraction of their value now.

I have to disagree with this idea.

Sorry ☹️

pooh • 25 December 2014 at 2:58 PM

Ummm... I'm a new here, and I'm very, VERY unhappy, because I can't have my pets on that stage that I like. I can't freeze them, because the Essence of Litsdnats is in the Cash Shop I can't use. This is soooooooo unfair... So I agree with @mishababy. If people can't get it enough easy (by the way, it can have a high price in EC, so it will force people to feed more pets), what's the point of it?

Deleted • 25 December 2014 at 5:26 PM

@Kiryko

Sorry, but I will have to say no. If this was implanted, it would bring Eggcave's economy down with a fatal blow, as bad as it is.

mishababy • 25 December 2014 at 5:59 PM

Don't be ridiculous. Markets balance themselves, and the introduction of a couple of potions to modify creature evolutions is not going to murder the market. There would be a period of adjustment, that's just plain common sense and goes without saying, but it would most certainly not be an econo-apocolypse. =\ And thank you, @poo , I am glad I'm not the only one thoroughly disenchanted with this site and it's policy of only allowing cashers to have pets the stage they want (the only alternative to which forces those who cannot cash to jump through a dang obstacle course of firey hoops in order to TRY to get those same creatures). Ah, well. We are the minority here. Besides, my vote on this really doesn't count, since I'm not much active here since I disagree on a fundamental level with the contents of the cash shop and thus how the mechanics of this "game" have been set up. Still, it seems to me like the biggest argument here has been about science, namely the science of economics. I'm no economist but I have taken a college course or two on the subject matter, and this sort of change to a market has been scrutinized many times before. You're all blowing this way out of proportion. I still don't agree with making more cash shop only items, but that seems to be what this site is about so my opinion does not matter one wit, and if you're going to add more I guess you should at least make it useful. This is useful.

veritaspunk • 25 December 2014 at 6:21 PM

@mishababy

They could still maintain a value of exclusivity and prestige by the "date stolen", I would think "first gen" or "originals" would still keep it fair market for those who could snatch them up years ago, yet bring in more revenue/site engagement.

mishababy • 25 December 2014 at 6:23 PM

Agreed. Who doesn't love a good low-number pet?! XD Besides, it would still be limited to only those who can cash. It's not like they'd in an EC shop for 5k. Alternatively, you could always add them to one of the "random event" places already inherent in the game, such as The Oasis. The drop rate would be so ridiculously low as to have no visible impact on the site, but they'd still be there, and you could give them out as part of gift bags during special site events if you were feeling especially generous to reward active players.

despair • 25 December 2014 at 7:25 PM

@veritaspunk
@mishababy

I disagree with this completely. "09 Roos" are only, like, slightly rarer than the roos stolen on 2012.

Markets don't always balance themselves, m8ys. Eggcave's people greatly contribute to the stabilization of the economy. Unfortunately, it's not doing to well at the moment.

You guys are looking at it from a one-sided perspective. "It'd be a fair way for people to get the creatures they wanted! It's 2hard otherwise, lol."

It also seems like you disagree with the cash shop park quite a bit. m8. The Cash Shop park is a pretty big part of what keeps this site funded. "Cashers" was a pretty funny term you used there, though. lol.

In addition, part of what keeps eggcave fun and interesting is the goal of trying to obtain rarer creatures. They shouldn't just be handed to you, you should have to work for them. There's nothing more satisfying than achieving your goal of getting that long-desired creature you've always wanted. It may seem impossible, but it pays off in the long run.

Having something that lowered stage to egg stages would be awful. Tine eggs? As rare as last stage Tines. That's an almost unbelievable price drop.

Deleted • 25 December 2014 at 7:31 PM

@Despair

Thank you.

veritaspunk • 25 December 2014 at 8:08 PM

@despair

They still represent a quantity in each of those releases that a person is going to have to negotiate with if that person wants that particular release version.

I'm not against the cash shop at all ... it seems the market is pricing itself out for a lot of newer players or players that can't justify spending the asking prices ... which is fine ... but the market you will appeal to is an exclusive class of people that makes it less inviting and more like an exclusive commercial club where those few dictate everything ... the money becomes the game... who's willing to pay for their creature rather than obtain through game play.

mishababy • 25 December 2014 at 9:25 PM

@despair
I resent your tone here. I'm not trying to whine, I'm simply saying this would be nice to have, and the fact of the matter is there ARE things in the cash shop that you cannot get unless you pay real money for them. Trust me, I fully realize how important the cash shop is for the continuing operation of this site; the bills have to get paid somehow, and new content doesn't usually fund itself. However, regardless of my views on this (and I feel like we're getting horribly off-topic with this now so let's switch gears and get back to the main discussion), the argument is not simply whether or not it should be in the cash shop so much as whether it should be implemented at all. You say markets do not always stabilize themselves and that it's not currently doing so well (I have to wonder what your frame of reference is for this; I haven't been around near long enough to discuss that point with you but I am accustomed to rare things being very expensive on every site I play as well as everything offline). It is the people who comprise the market who stabilize it, correct? Therefor, as long as everyone doesn't quit when the potions are released, the market would not suffer an unrecoverable blow; quite frankly, I think it rather silly to suggest that the eggconomy would not stabilize itself given that fact. People don't ragequit a game they love when new features are added in a fair and balanced way. Furthermore, by placing very specific and almost extreme limitations on the acquisition of these items, their presence in the marketplace will be quite muted. Any impact they have would be severely limited. If you'll notice, I even made a suggestion about where to release them to further this end. How many times have you found something at the Oasis or the Mysterious Asteroid? Exactly. Realistically, were these items to be added to *those* places, you would never be able to count on getting them. They would be rather nifty bonuses that, should they be made tradable (and I see no reason why they would not be at some point), would give players something else to work towards. One could even argue that it may actually encourage cashing should we be able to sell them for CC as well as EC, and that helps everyone involved. Anything so amazing as this should be regarding with a good measure of moderation, but any helpful thing should be studiously scrutinized before ruling it out completely. There is a good deal of potential for positive consequences with the addition of these items. Just because figuring out a good way to make something available while maintaining a balance might be difficult, doesn't mean that it is not a worthy cause or that you should give up just because it's hard.


@veritaspunk
Thank you! I agree completely. Many people, especially new players, just cannot afford to cash and many others cannot justify the spending even if they can afford it. The very fact that we have a precedence set for such OP potions as EoL and EY kind of makes the entire argument about adding another one kind of moot; at this point, it's more about finding a balance for both player morale and the eggconomy. All current potions are in the cash shop not only to encourage site support but also to try to promote balance within the eggconomy; however, as far as making something rare to acquire goes, we have more options now to that end. Perhaps it's time eggcave considered making some other nice potions available elsewhere, preferably in a way that would still encourage supporting the site - like what I have suggested above.



This conversation is still in the very early stages. I would really like to see what players' biggest worries are with the addition of these potions if they were ever made available. Only when we know what people are concerned about can we address those concerns and begin to discuss a reasonable and fair way to make this a realistic hope. So, if any of yall know some super active, longer-time players of this game, could you please ping them? Let's get some more input from people who have been here for a while and who perhaps have a different viewpoint from which to offer concerns. =)

despair • 25 December 2014 at 10:24 PM

@mishababy


You resent my "tone"? Um, well, sorry about that bud. No offense intended or whatever, I was simply making my side of the argument. Yeah, I'm aware that there are some things that you can only get from the cash shop park. If you just got them handed out to you on a silver platter, what would be the incentive of paying money to get it? We get enough cave exclusives that I think it's fair enough to make CSP exclusives as well. If you don't want to pay for it, then you could always trade for the creature. Trust me, there's quite a few people out there that'll trade CSPS for EC. If you want it that badly, just go and feed. Save up enough EC until you can get what you want. It really is not that hard. Is it really worth a gigantic site-change in an attempt to make things "balanced"?

>"People don't ragequit a game they love when new features are added in a fair and balanced way."

Well, that's pretty much what happened with users when the Christmas Creatures were re-released in 2012. It was an attempt by eggcave to add balance by making some pretty rare creatures available for a short time. Drifting around the site like I always do, because I'm top-tier lurker, I've seen users get VERY upset with even the mention of re-releasing creatures. Who knows what they would do if all of their hard earned, rare creatures were rereleased? I'm not basing my argument based off of my ideals and perspective, I'm basing it off of things that I've witnessed happen in the past.



>"Furthermore, by placing very specific and almost extreme limitations on the acquisition of these items, their presence in the marketplace will be quite muted. Any impact they have would be severely limited.

This is the only thing I sorta-kinda agree with, but it'd have to be extremely restricted. We don't need 5 more Doovoo's floating around here in 2 months.


>"How many times have you found something at the Oasis or the Mysterious Asteroid? Exactly. Realistically, were these items to be added to *those* places, you would never be able to count on getting them. They would be rather nifty bonuses that, should they be made tradable (and I see no reason why they would not be at some point), would give players something else to work towards. One could even argue that it may actually encourage cashing should we be able to sell them for CC as well as EC, and that helps everyone involved.

I've found quite a few things at the asteroid, but I get what you're saying. You, yourself, might not be able to count on getting them, but there are tons of users who are doing the same thing. 2-3 years ago? Asteroid creatures were a huge "bonus". I traded a Tenalp and a Paret for a Leyma egg and a first stage mummar. Now? Even though the chances of you getting one are extremely unreliable, the general population of them have increased so much to the point of where you can barely get 500 CC for them.

I'm done arguing, though. I just wanted to voice my opinion, and I have done just that.


@veritaspunk

I'm sorry, but I have no clue what you're saying. I'm not sure if I'm misreading what you posted, but I can't seem to figure it out.

newlife • 25 December 2014 at 10:39 PM

@kiryko @despair @mishababy

No, totally against this idea.

Values of creatures will go down, and I know many people who have spent a lot of real life money on Eggcave to obtain rare creatures.

If this comes into play, a person with a last stage Tine could get a first stage Tine like THAT.
Especially with the fact that we can now transfer CC to other people, we don't have to buy it ourselves.

A lot of rare eggs are rare because NO ONE ELSE HAS THEM.

Last stage Ragon is one of the older, but less liked creatures. Their eggs, I've only seen like, 4-5 of them, are really, really liked by a lot of people.

With last stage Ragons being bought and then changed into Ragon eggs, the entire economy goes out of whack.

If this gets implimented EVER, I will quit at a moment's notice, because, frankly, it is stupid and should NOT be put into the system.

This has been suggested over 20 times in the time I've been a member of EC, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, this has been shot down, because there are too many factors, and the issue of the economy in Eggcave, and the reason stated in the beginning, that many people have put hard earned money into the site to get creatures, to get that satisfaction of getting something.

My experience here will not be ruined because of one thing added in the Cash Shop.

Also, if you don't like my tone, that how you read it, because I frankly don't care about your feelings, I care about the COMMUNITY.
I'm being honest.

Despair is correct, this is the same as the creature rerelease of the Roos and Florns; it will cause A LOT of drama, and I hate Eggcave drama, since we already have enough.


Fight me, I'll shoot down all your ideas.
I'm a long time player, and I will not see Eggcave ruined because of kids that want to earn things easily without trying.

A game is something in which you try to get to a certain goal. Games that have everything sugarcoated and easy to get have always bored me within MINUTES, but games that have goals and actually make you try keep me captivated, because I'm always striving to get better, better, better.
An accomplishment is when you do something that is almost impossible, and you actually manage to do it.

A game is exactly like that- you keep TRYING until you reach your goals, and you feel that sense of accomplishment, that you finally did it, and you feel GOOD about yourself.

Can't do it? You quit.
The end.

Deleted • 25 December 2014 at 11:33 PM

As convenient as this may be, and as much as I would love to have it implemented because of that, the problem is that potions of this nature would be too convenient.

Creature values inflate rapidly, depending on various factors, with earlier stages being the most valuable. As far as trading is concerned, if anyone could get a last stage creature and revert it to a previous stage, what exactly would happen to 1. the value of last stage creatures, 2. the availability of last stage creatures, 3. the value and desirability of trading MORE (CC/Creatures/Ec) for EARLIER stages?

Why would anyone bother trading triple the amount for an earlier stage when they could trade for a lower stage and just pay 'x' CC or trade 'x' EC for the CC to buy this potion?

When higher stages become such a huge demand, and earlier stages are no longer sought after because of aforementioned value difference, (as in any supply and demand scenario) their values will spike.

So now, we have creatures in lower stages with high values AND creatures in higher stages with values rapidly inflating. Eventually, there won't be a difference in values between stages, so all creatures will be even more expensive and unaffordable. Also factor in the possibility of higher stages becoming harder to find as time goes on.

How it is now, you trade for the higher stages at the lower value, gradually build up your cove, wait for newer creatures to retire and gain value, and eventually trade for the lower stage you always wanted.

Also, users will no longer rush to buy freezes as their creatures get closer to evolving if they plan on trading it later on. That might also harm income for this site.

mishababy • 25 December 2014 at 11:33 PM

Rage moar, newlife. Please. If you had read anything I wrote, you would see that the entire point was to make it very difficult to acquire. You wouldn't be able to get them "like THAT", and in fact you'd be lucky to get one or the other just once in a year of play. Once. In a year. Please, tell me more about how that's going to ruin the eggconomy and make all of the OMGITSSOSUPERRARE rares ridiculously, hideously common. Your entire argument is flawed, because you've ignored half of the conversation.

newlife • 26 December 2014 at 12:14 AM

@mishababy

Thanks for the ping.
Ah right, there was none.
Thanks. 😊

I didn't bother to read anything you wrote, because that huge block of text gave me a headache, and it was too crammed together to make out anything.
Sorry I have a reading disability with large texts. (True, by the way, the sentences and words mix together.)

Oh, just once or twice a year? Multiply that by how many people play here (It's somewhere over 50k), and wow, that makes SUCH a large difference.
Sarcasm please.

Obviously you weren't reading anything I was saying about how the community would react; you're doing this because this would make a game that isn't supposed to be easy, extremely easy.

And I'm not going to deal with this, because frankly, this entire conversation is turning into child's play.

@Orderedchaos

You're one of the only mods I really like on here, do you mind sorting this out while I get some hot cocoa to settle my hot temper and horrible day?
I think we all need a mod to help sort this out, because people are starting to get very, very angry, including myself.

Thanks dear. #GreatMod

Edit: Saw Hybrid's post, and she makes a great point.

It would hurt Eggcave (not the 'economy', but the actual site) a lot, because no one would buy freezes, so then people wouldn't buy CC.
Please think about this from all perspectives, and not your own. 😊

Deleted • 26 December 2014 at 12:46 PM

@mishababy

"So, if any of yall know some super active, longer-time players of this game, could you please ping them? Let's get some more input from people who have been here for a while and who perhaps have a different viewpoint from which to offer concerns. =)"

@Newlife and @Despair are both super active and long-time players of this game.

Please respect their viewpoints and try to look at it from their point of view, not just yours 😊

newlife • 26 December 2014 at 2:12 PM

@rushingwater

Thanks Rushing, I really needed that ^^

kiryko • 27 December 2014 at 1:22 AM

@Orderedchaos I never ever thought it'll cause such discussion. I was waiting for YES/NO things. If it turns into THIS when even single answer make someone nervous, I guess this should be LOCKED and FORGOT.
No then No.

mishababy • 28 December 2014 at 12:11 AM

I fail to see how I have failed to respect anyone's viewpoint, so kindly do not condescend to me. If you want to take it down that path, others have admitted to not even reading what I've written, and that is far more disrespect than I have shown. If you all cannot have a constructive conversation where people are actually reading what is being posted and would rather insist on arguing rather than having an open mind and actually being constructive, then so be it. It was my mistake to think otherwise. I'm still new here, and I had no idea how toxic the community is here; rest assured, I have learned my lesson. My apologies to the thread starter that this has devolved so thoroughly. You had a good idea. Thank you for being brave enough to post it in this kind of atmosphere.

kiryko • 28 December 2014 at 12:44 AM

@mishababy I've read everything written here.I appreciate your support but unfortunately I know what such discussions lead to.Sad experience on Russian and Ukrainian sites tell me this sooner or later will cause abusing each other. I don't want it happen.

savannahall • 28 December 2014 at 2:49 AM

@kiryko I think it's a great idea! 😃

veritaspunk • 28 December 2014 at 4:35 AM

I blame the in part the lack of official 100 CC Vouchers err no it's Doovoo ... has to be ? right ? ...

Orderedchaos • 28 December 2014 at 8:27 PM

Closing this topic at the request of the original poster.