Regarding SMS verification

raccoon • 8 May 2022 at 10:46 AM

Hello everyone! I see a lot of people struggling to verify and link their accounts via SMS for various reasons and I thought it would be a good idea to try to break down why this is important and how to do it. As well as addressing some privacy concerns some people have.

IMPORTANT NOTE: IM NOT STAFF/MODERATION! I'm just a user who decided to try to help people understand better!


So, why do you need to verify your account? Simple answer; you don't!*

(*As far as my understanding. It's not a requirement to verify your account in order to continue playing eggcave.)

You are not forced to verify your account via SMS. I highly recommend verifying anyways, for a few reasons.

For one thing, it provides an extra layer of security to your account. It's a lot harder for someone to attempt to steal your account when the only one with access to the number it's verified with is you.

Verifying your account also allows you to directly link your sides to your main account. This makes things a lot easier for staff in regards to making sure people aren't cheating.

There's also the fact that verifying your account will allow you to participate in the upcoming free CC feature!

Some people are concerned that Eggcave will sell their information or possibly take advantage of it via spam and the like. These are valid concerns! It's good to be mindful of your online footprint to protect yourself and your information from people with malicious intent.

That being said, I and many other users have given Eggcave our numbers already for verification as well as credit card information to buy CC. I can personally say that not once has Eggcave ever done anything to compromise my privacy or abuse their access to my information.

Not only that, but breaking that trust between the site and its users would do more harm to Eggcave than good. Eggcave is not a large site, and each of its members is important. Mishandling private information would only serve to drive people away from the site, which is definitely not what Eggcave wants.

On top of all of that, if you don't want to use your personal phone number, or you don't HAVE your own phone number, there are a few solutions to this.

First off, do NOT use a burner phone. It seems monthly verification might be necessary for the free CC feature to prevent people from using bots or extra accounts to abuse it. So being able to verify every month that it is in fact your account is important! Using a burner number might prevent you from doing this!

With that out of the way, some users have suggested apps like TalkNow and Google Voice. Both apps (apparently) give you a 'phone number' and can send/receive texts like an actual phone. An option I haven't seen suggested is Skype, which I BELIEVE also gives you a 'phone number'. It's been many years since I've used it though, so it might not work.

Alternatively, mostly for kids who don't have a phone yet, ask your parent/legal guardian to help you. Explain to them what it's for and how it will be used and see if they will allow you to verify your account with their phone number.

If none of those solutions work for you, don't panic! This doesn't mean you can't continue to play Eggcave.

If you still have your doubts about sharing your information, that's okay too! You can still continue to play Eggcave.

I think the biggest purpose behind verification is to crack down on bots and prevent them from abusing the upcoming free CC feature. Having it abused has the potential to crash the Eggcave economy.

I hope this has helped some people understand better what verification is, what it's for, and how to do it.

If I got any information wrong, please feel free to correct me.

Also feel free to ask any questions. I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability. Thank you for reading!

snowywinter • 9 May 2022 at 11:03 PM

@raccoon That was VERY well worded post. 😊

poll : I'm waiting a little while to make sure the bugs are ironed out (but plan on verifying eventually.)

For what it's worth, companies that FORCED me to use SMS verification, never caused my information to be compromised, nor did I receive any spam from doing so. (And mainly it was from companies that already have my information in one way or another.) - Eggcave is far from forcing anyone from using this feature, even if the language used was pretty strong.

I'd personally welcome SMS verification for all players to combat harassment... but coming from the paranoid group can also see where it would feel invasive.

On the subject of disposable/shifting telephone numbers (half ponderings/ half question) ..that was actually one of my concerns, as I may be without a cell phone come the end of the year. (Staff assured me they're working on solutions.)
I don't think this would cause anyone to be locked out of their accounts. If players are still able to play the game without SMS verification, then I'm assuming without an active phone number one would just lose access to free CC. (For security, if one loses a phone number I'm assuming it would be recommended to delete it from the website?) We should all still be able to access our accounts and settings using email & password. (If not then this would be rather upsetting.)

*IF* Eggcave uses the type of verification that sends a number to the phone, then you type it into the website (and not the type where you have to text a reply back,) then this may still work with traditional landlines. (Just putting it out there for anyone that this may be a solution. - if privacy isn't the issue, but access is.) People kept sending me text messages all the time on my landline >.<
(It's being phased out, but some carriers still support this.)

raccoon • 10 May 2022 at 7:57 AM

@snowywinter

Thank you! 😃

I just wanted to try to help some people who might not fully understand, I'm glad my post might have achieved that!

As for being locked out of your account, I was referring to a situation where you needed to verify that the account was yours in order to get access to it back. (ex: Say you were hacked)

I'll definitely go back in and see if I can change the wording of that part. ^^

I totally understand waiting until the bugs are ironed out, and I really hope everyone who is skeptical knows that they're not being FORCED to verify via SMS.

Thank you again for the feedback! ❤️

Deleted • 10 May 2022 at 8:05 AM

@raccoon

Although I do understand the sentiment (and I DO know we NEED a 2FA for improved security) and I thank you for the effort in explaining it, my main concern is that such a thing SHOULDN'T be mandatory and shouldn't be linked to site's feature - it should be there just to improve security and to allow someone to recover an account in case of problems and all. And although yes, browsing the internet in general isn't 100% safe (unless you know your stuff, use VPNs, etc etc and you know, some people MIGHT use these methods and value privacy over anything else), sharing a phone number is something different altogether. Some people don't have phones right now or yet (such as myself) or just don't want to share theirs online. And I thin EC should take this into consideration, respect these users' wishes and not PUNISH them for not having the means to verify their mains & sides. Like, they clearly wrote they will be LESS LENIENT towards people that didn't verify and they will be LEFT OUT the whole CC gifting thing... it's not our FAULT, and we SHOULDN'T be punished for it! Also users that might enjoy and gain a small profit from these features more - such kids with no phones and no means of paying real money for CC - will be most likely left out the feature as well, unless they don't use someone's else phone... dunno you guys, but it doesn't look very good nor fair to me.

Also, there are TONS of ways we could've earned daily CC without being allowed to abuse the system, such weekly for watching ads (and keeping a streak) or weekly and monthly login bonuses - I saw tons of sites, such as dappervolk, for example, do it, and they DIDN'T require a 2FA for that. Site's features and freebies SHOULDN'T, in my opinion, be linked to a 2FA, 'cause it should be there for the safety of the account, not to partecipate in the site's stuff.

I know my position on this is very hard, but that blog post felt forced and made me quite sad, to the point ot thinking and planning to quit the site for good, even though I've been here for years. :/ I'm not saying we don't have to have 2FA, I just think it should be an optional thing, and not linked to the site's event, freebies and dailies...

Orderedchaos • 10 May 2022 at 10:39 AM

@sinthr
Weekly watching of ads, log in bonuses, ect. are all things that are easily abuseable by the simple fact that people on EC can have more than one account, something that is usually against the rules on most sites because of things like this. Dappervolk, for example, only allows one account, so yeah, they don't need 2FA for you to get free turnips, if you're caught using more than one account to use the ad theater you've already been breaking Dappervolk's rules.

No one is going to be punished for not using 2FA. NO ONE. If you aren't already breaking the rules by using your side accounts to do thing they are ALREADY NOT ALLOWED TO DO you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you don't want to use our 2FA you aren't going to get instabanned. That would be just ridiculous.

However if you (general, not you specific) are someone who has a history of breaking ECs rules with your side accounts and you choose not to link them, then that will be seen as suspicious behavior and I'll end up having to keep a closer eye on such accounts during events. So yes, we won't be quite as lenient with people who just want to cheat and break the rules as we are now (less lenient does not mean instabanning). Especially if/when we allow people to do things like turn off the Cave/Asteroid/events for their sides, something that people have been asking for for years.

I honestly don't know what else I can say. And I know there are questions that I just can't answer as I am not a programmer, I do not know the specifics of this new system, and do not know what all Ian has planned.

Deleted • 10 May 2022 at 11:27 AM

@Orderedchaos

Thank you very much for reaching out! I guess that makes sense... tbh, If cove expansion was more manageable and there was a way to lock certain creatures so they can't gain clicks, views or feeds, maybe I'd switch to one account as well but yeah, on ec sides are very well needed If you plan to collect. I didn't know that ad watchers were easily abused... isn't eggcave team capable of seeing If someone is using different accounts to perform something from... well, a side? Up 'till now, how was it done? And also even with 2FA, If a cheater DON'T declare main and sides, or declares all but one, and still uses that as the main posing as an entirely different person, won't this 2FA system be breakable as well? What If someone binds a main and 3 side with one number and a main and 3 side with another? And another and another? Not saying that rudely, mind you, I'm just... curious.

I am happy to know that nobody is gonna be penalized for not using such a feature, but I hope in case of problems or account stealing staff will be still helping people that didn't verify mains or couldn't do it? And at the end of the day, the fact that this will leave out a certain category of users from specific site features (such as the free cc gifting & activities) remains, and it quite pains me tbh 'cause it isn't definitely fair.

I'm really, really hoping there will be some kind of alternatives tbh. I really can't get a phone, right now...

Orderedchaos • 10 May 2022 at 12:04 PM

@sinthr
We will be helping everyone regardless of whether they have 2FA or not. I really don't know where you got the idea that we'd stop helping people, but no mater what, if someone asks for help we'll give it. It's just like the security questions, not everyone fills them out, but if they come to us for help with their account we'll still help them.

And yes, 2FA wont stop people from cheating, but it will keep cheaters from getting free CC and make my job easier. And if people still cheat even after they've linked their accounts, well, just because you have 2FA enabled doesn't mean you can't get in trouble when you break the rules. If someone is cheating then I will deal with them accordingly.

Deleted • 10 May 2022 at 1:41 PM

@Orderedchaos

Well, guess the blog was a little misleading... with all the talk of not accepting or acknowledging that the sides listed "not offically" are yours and so on... the "When suspicious activity occurs on accounts that are not declared as either a main or side, harsher and quicker penalties will be issued against these accounts." kinda made me jumpy. Like, If anyone breaks into your account, it felt like you'd be banned or helped poorly because you didn't have the official link thing? I think it's a bit out of line as, as you just confirmed, people could cheat also after having officially linked their main & sides... I am glad that doesn't seem the case, but you must admit these bits felt a bit misleading...

Still hoping for alternatives, though. It will be really sad to leave out some people from the fun, even though they are LOYAL players, just because they don't have a phone number.

raccoon • 12 May 2022 at 10:51 PM

@sinthr (Replying to your first post, the one that was directed at me 😊)

I addressed most of those points in my original post, not sure you actually read the whole thing, ^^' and I understand where you're coming from about not wanting to exclude people but at the end of the day... free cc is a privilege. The fact that they're letting any of us get free cc is astonishing to me, personally. It's not something necessary to play the site, and it's an added bonus for people who link their accounts to make things easier for our lovely staff.

There are also alternatives (that I mentioned in my post) to using your personal cellphone number to verify accounts. (TalkNow, Google Voice) They should also be options for people without a cellphone at all.

Nobody is being punished for not verifying, you just aren't granted the PRIVILEGE of free cc.

Hope that helps. ❤️

snowywinter • 12 May 2022 at 11:18 PM

@raccoon

FYI
I was looking into alternatives to traditional cell phones lately, and it has been several years since I helped anyone set up Google Voice so I was brushing up on it. From what I read, they now require users to connect it to a phone number. (I could be wrong, but that's how I read it.)

(Still an option though for those concerned about giving out their actual phone number.)


Whispers: I totally agree about "free" CC being a surprising, amazing, privilege.

jilltheplatypus • 12 May 2022 at 11:47 PM

Yall all making some great points! My main disappointment with it is the monthly authentication and why it's nessessary because though it is not spam having to deal with this monthly on a free to play site seems like more work than it's worth. Also while I know very little about programming and technology anything, I'm just questioning why this is the best way to ensure no abuse of the free cc system.

luv • 13 May 2022 at 2:11 AM

Most texting apps such as TalkNow will likely have options that will allow you to access them with just wifi, however you may need to pay a small fee monthly or yearly to keep the number if regular checkins are required. Still probably far cheaper than a cellphone or plan for anyone who doesn't have one, though.

From a programming standpoint, it really depends how they'll implement free CC. I certainly don't profess to being any sort of "master coder", in fact, quite the opposite - I'm doing my master's in the field, and boy all I've realized while doing that is I'm rubbish at it. That being said, I'd say it'll really depend on whether accounts are being rewarded for general activity (eg. logging in every day, site trivia, etc.) or for completing tasks - anything such as feeding would likely be easy to code bots for (I think based on #s I see on popular click sites and everything, some people on adoptables sites are probably doing this already, and running it out of their account would mean verification wouldn't help, but I don't know enough about how bots are coded. I'm a biologist, lol.)

Personally, I linked my accounts only because by this point of my time on Eggcave, I have lots of crossover with other users with how long I've been here, and from past experience on other sites with strict account-sharing guidelines, I've learned how easy this can be to misread from a staff perspective, and I don't want to go through anything like that again. I do agree though that monthly verification seems a bit much if they go on that route, and I can see how younger members might feel punished - their parents or guardians may not want to confirm something every month, or at all. I know when I started Eggcave I was a young child and wouldn't have a phone for a few more years, and I would have been devastated feeling I couldn't participate in earning free CC that way - I already felt like the older teenage or adult users who could afford to spend disposable income on CC were at an advantage, because I saw plenty of CSPs released that I was here for but would have had no hope of getting my hands on. (Of course, I don't buy CC as an adult with disposable income now either, so maybe that was me assuming a lot back then lol.) Anyways, I suppose I can see both camps. It'll be interesting to watch how it plays out.

Deleted • 13 May 2022 at 7:10 AM

@raccoon

I read everything you've written, thank you very much.
And yes, free css is a privilege, bit it is still a site feature - a freebie - and no other site I saw REQUIRED a 2FA for it. They had ad watchers and login streaks and we already pointed out that people CAN abuse and cheat also with the 2FA on, so... I just don't see the point in FORCING something that should be OPTIONAL (and in regard to the account security only) just to be able to partecipate in the site's freebies or to link accounts. A site feature should be fair on ALL users, unless it's clearly stated that is a PREMIUM thing purchaseable with monley only. But I do understand that is a difficult concept to grasp when you're not in the minority of people that don't use a phone and will be left inevitably out. There's more pro than cons when you do have a phone or you don't mind that kind of verifying.

By the way, as I mentioned in the blog, the services you provided in alternative don't work (or so it seems) for european players?

raccoon • 13 May 2022 at 7:43 AM

@sinthr

2FA IS optional. Free CC being held behind it is totally reasonable. Other games might be a lot bigger than eggcave, and someone cheating to abuse the system and get a lot of free CC can very very easily hurt the site.

Other freebies to my knowledge remain accessible to those who don't verify and link their accounts.

Again, free CC is a PRIVILEGE. It shouldn't BE easy to get for everyone. As nice as it would be. Eggcave is a small game, I don't know the finances but I'm pretty sure easy free CC would hurt the sites funding by a lot.

2FA makes it easier for staff to keep an eye on people and makes it easier to find and monitor possible cheaters too.

If it were something like watching an ad for free ec I don't think they would have to be so strict. Same way they aren't strict about the login bonuses.

Not being able to get free CC doesn't make the game unplayable like you imply either.

I don't appreciate the implication that I'm not able to 'grasp' what it's like to NOT have access to 2FA. I'm not trying to be elitist and an attack on my character isn't necessary. Let's keep things civil please.

As for the other options not working for EU players, I wasn't aware. As much as it sucks, EU players simply have to wait for now.

I'm sure there's something out there that will work, and I believe Ian and the ECT are working on it.

I'm not god. I don't have all the answers. I'm just a person trying to explain something to help others understand both sides. Yes, I do see BOTH sides.

I don't think I will be continuing this conversation with you, however. I hope you have a lovely day. Thank you for voicing your thoughts.

Deleted • 13 May 2022 at 8:21 AM

@raccoon It's not to get or not the cc, the problem... it's just, it feels *wrong* to have something that prevents some to enjoy the game frully. I think it's a bit unfair - not being able to partecipate in a site feature, privilege or not, because you don't have the means to. I'd rather have preferred a method that included everyone... *everyone*. Without leaving anybody out. And I wasn't rude or anything, just saying that it's difficult to understand how it feels to be left out or how frustrating is to be told to "wait" just because you weren't born in the us, when you have the means to do something and others don't - it happens, it's human, and it easily slips the mind. It happened to me as well. I'm just reading you're saying 2FA is a great and positive thing, that is a 100% good thing, but it will indeed make some people quit because they will feel left out. I've been told some users quitted already, and I'm very well inclined to do so as well If I will be left out of a feature just because I don't have the means to access it. If it was a premium thing (something like, buy #cc amount, get #amount free) I'd have understood, but this isn't a premium feature so it should be accessible to any and all players. Let's hope a compromise will be found, I'd say and let's agree to disagree, at least.

Anyways, sorry for pointing out my opinions, then, I see they kind of bother most people... in the end, majority always wins anyways. I'll be out this board as well. *shrugs*

widgetspinner • 13 May 2022 at 11:03 PM

great discussion.. Do what you will

demeownic • 14 May 2022 at 7:23 PM

i think my opinion on this is that cc itself has always been a premium feature. if egg cave is willing to give it to you for free, then they're hardly asking much in return by asking you to prove you're not cheating or abusing the system. as someone who considers themselves somewhat tech-savvy, i promise this isn't an unusual feature at all - there are games out there that won't even let you PLAY unless you verify your identity. it's perfectly fair and not at all malicious. it's honestly the opposite, they're trying to ensure the integrity of the game.

not to mention they've said they're working on a way for people without phone numbers to verify themselves. i feel like some people don't understand how hard it can be to roll out a new feature like this. there's going to be some trial and error until they get it right.

heatherm19 • 15 May 2022 at 3:58 AM

@sinthr said
"It's not to get or not the cc, the problem... it's just, it feels *wrong* to have something that prevents some to enjoy the game frully. I think it's a bit unfair - not being able to partecipate in a site feature, privilege or not, because you don't have the means to. I'd rather have preferred a method that included everyone... *everyone*."

CC in and of itself is already a restricted feature. It's *already* something that a lot of users can't participate in because it requires *real* money. It's not like Eggcave is introducing a brand-new awesome feature and restricting it to people with cell phones.... CC is already a thing and it seems like it has been for a long time. And it's been inaccessible to many people. Opening up a way to get *free* CC is really something most sites with a pay-feature would never even consider. Requiring verification to cut down on cheating/bots seems fairly reasonable.
No one is being suddenly shut out of a feature they could use previously, or anything like that.... Those with the ability to buy CC with real money can continue doing that and not link their phone number if they want, and those without that ability who don't want to or can't verify will continue to to have very limited access to CC. Nothing will actually change for them, and if not having access to CC wasn't a deal-breaker before this feature was announced I don't see why it would be now.

(That said, I'm very much looking forward to more information on how exactly this is going to work and getting answers to some concerns.)

Deleted • 15 May 2022 at 5:07 AM

"Nothing will actually change for them, and if not having access to CC wasn't a deal-breaker before this feature was announced I don't see why it would be now."

Let me unlock a picture. You're a user that can't afford CC, and this makes you sad, but there isn't much you can do about it. Then, a feature that grants a little of free CC is given, and of course you will be happy until you realize you don't have the means to be allowed into it. Yeah, you're right - it won't change a thing, 'cause you will be still left out without a chance to partecipate, while you could've, but you just don't have the means to. *shrugs*

That said, I repeat, I'm thrilled to see how they will implement, and If, alternative. I'm aware of the amount of work such features require, I'm just a bit disappoited these kind of things weren't thought before... of course some people would be left out, and of course, I think that would've been prevented If wanted.

Anyways, listen, I don't even care anymore. I got sad and angry 'cause I cared, 'cause EC always, always cared for ALL their users. I don't anymore and I'm tired of the argument. Site owner will do what they want to do, people will just learn to live with it or hiatus / quit and find more fair shores, simple.