Excuse me Dearly

bubblez • 3 September 2013 at 10:02 PM

@karamel

While I agree with users not knowing what scamming is, I was referring to when users take advantage of others. Which is scamming.

And again, I've already stated that the art itself is not bad. But not EggCave style. And again,many users have said ways to change the art into more of an EggCave style. And again, the artist(s) have to actually improve on that. So please explain to me, what's the point of criticism of it's going to be ignored?

I also am very aware trading is not something we have to do. However, there's nothing else to do here. The forums are dead. And there's nothing else. Trading is fun & a great way to make new friends while collecting creatures you like. And just because you're trading, doesn't mean you're trading for rare creatures, or that you can get rare creatures. But you can get some (well not really anymore)

@Meteoroid

I disagree with the CC not being in the TC. If you made it like how we trade CC, they technically, by your standards & EC's, you cannot get scammed.

EggCave will never fully be based around 🪙 Since it's easily obtained and everyone can get it. People don't want something they can get on their own. Like you said, CC is bought with real money. People have paid a lot of money for their creatures, and they do not want something that they can get for free.

You could, however, even it all out. And honestly, that's the only thing that would have a chance of working out.

In my opinion, adding CC to the TC & making, or continuing with the 🪙 plans you have would make the site fair and better for everyone. You'd have both currencies being used.

And you said somewhere (I just skimmed) that CC was never suppose to be a currency, but again I disagree. EC = free; CC = money. I don't want to give my older creatures away for free (EC) I worked hard for them. It took me some time to get them. And I don't want to just give them away for EC, not too many users would/do. And people can/have earned CC for free (well not free, but they did work hard to earn it.) I guess it's just a matter of opinions.

This has turned out into a full blown debate, and I can't read it all right now ;-; So if this has already been stated, my apologies. It's just opinion, from the view of a user and trader.

Deleted • 3 September 2013 at 10:16 PM

My comment is aimed at the topic in general.
Being a fairly new user here really do not have much issue with the creatures designs.

Yeah..a few look a bit "unorthodox" but I liked the new releases (the cave ones).
But people put a lot of work into designing these creatures and I guess I just don't like hurting other peoples feelings especially when it comes to critiquing their artwork.

After all I am certain that some creatures can be refined a tad..maybe.

All I will say is that this particular interpretation of the Baku is unusual. It has a sort of water-element feel to it.

Now here is MY view..the baku needs a bit more fur on the body but otherwise is cool.

The armadillo's body seems to slim down too much towards the lower part of the body. It needs to broaden out a bit to give it more "weight" to it.
(The eyes need a bit more definition)

But again this is just my slant. Regardless I like the new creatures for this month...hope I didn't hurt anyone.

ems • 4 September 2013 at 12:14 AM

To everybody who has a problem with the art here;

Could YOU draw that well? Hmm... Lemme think.... I'd bet most of you can't.

I can't draw that well, and art is actually I'm considering to persue art as a side job or something. You guys, if you're going to be critical, at least be polite about it. I know it's been said, but simply stating you hate it is actually extremely rude. As an art hobbyist myself on deviantart, I can assure you that if I ever saw comments like some of the ones posted here, I'd honestly and truely be hurt. The people working on this have done their best, and that's all we can ask. As Ian stated, some of the art has been done last minute. I dunno about you guys, but I (seriously, some of that was last minute? *O* ) think it's a miracle that we have art as good as we do. Be grateful! I know what it's like to try and draw things last minute, and it is not fun! :/

Think before you talk guys, it's important. I'm not going to name names, but some of these comments are incrediby rude and critical.

Another thing; you can't just ask an artist to change their style. (Yes I know there are multiple artists. We can't only have one, guys. That's way too much work for one human who has a life outside of EC.) It just doesn't work that way. And no art is bad either, especially here! It's all different styles, shapes and forms, but it's all art. You can't just say it's ugly. That's like... Saying fish are gross because you don't like the texture. There really is no "good" or "bad" art at all, just different styles, or "textures". Please don't be so critical. You don't really know these people, and your critical opinions are probably being read right now.

I don't want to offend anyone... But that's just how it is. ^^ Thanks for reading this whole thing. 😋

newlife • 4 September 2013 at 12:26 AM

@ems
I agree completely with you. I had someone say that I don't draw fast enough (really that's not a good reason to even comment) and I blocked and deleted the comment.

You guys should be mindful that PEOPLE are drawing these, not computers. You shouldn't be so harsh, everyone has flaws.

Yes, everyone. Including myself and you.
So please, appreciate that you are GETTING SOMETHING because not as many other sites update creatues as often as Eggcave.
Be. Thankful.

ems • 4 September 2013 at 12:50 AM

@newlife akfadkf
Yay someone who understands. XD

It's just so RIDICULOUS for people to expect so much of the artists! (Btw, sorry that happened dude. :/ I haven't gotten any mean comments... Yet.... I'm sure to get some, seeing the Internet in the condition it is now.)

People have stated multiple times that the new stuff "just isn't the EC style".

GUESS WHAT (OO BIG SURPRISE HERE)
Not everyone draws the same way!
And it is so ridiculously rude, inconsiderate and impolite of people to be so freaking judgemental of the artists here! D:< It really does irk me to no end. ;__;

And guess what? OOO MORE SURPRISES
The fact that not everything is perfect JUST PROVES WE'RE HUMAN. And, even better, the imperfections are the best part of life! What would we have to strive for if we were perfect?
Also, if you've ever seen something that's perfect, it doesn't look right. (OOO WHAT A SURPRISE) So be grateful that not everything is perfect guys. Be happy. Look on the bright side. Don't be mean about the art.

Grateful, optimistic people are the happiest people. I assume you all want to be happy, no? Stop complaining. -_-"

newlife • 4 September 2013 at 1:20 AM

@ems
Your arguement. So beautiful

It's true that no one draws in the same way, but some people don't like when people draw that way, or the style of art.
Some people may prefer traditional over digital art and not care about the drawing, only caring about how it was made.
This is what I find ridiculous. Why don't you take a minute and just look at it without taking a glance and basing everything off of what you see at a glance?

ems • 4 September 2013 at 1:40 AM

@newlife Heehee thanks. I'm just glad somebody here understands my point of view. :/

I wasn't talking about traditional versus digital, more of the way it is drawn. If you look at the creatures, some of the eggs are shaded differently, and some creatures have a more realistic touch to them than others. ^^ The point I have is that artists all have a different vision, and not one is better than the other. Each is individual and beautiful in it's own way, and I hate that people don't appreciate that.

But your point is actually really good too.

The biggest problem is, not everyone here is an artist, so all they have is their opinion, no real experience trying to do what the artists here do. If they would simply try and do the amazing things done here, they could actually appreciate how amazing this is.

cookiemonster • 4 September 2013 at 3:03 AM

@ems
Yup! I totally agree with you!
I do agree that the recent creatures aren't exactly EC style, but I still think they're nice. ❤️ And if you are dissappointed and don't like the creatures anymore, and want to quit, go ahead. No one's stopping you. 😊

ladynymeria • 4 September 2013 at 3:06 AM

*poofs back in briefly to applaud the last few comments and Ian's input*
I hate when people hide behind 'opinion' to get away with being blatantly rude or inconsiderate.
*poofs right back out*

Deleted • 4 September 2013 at 4:53 AM

@Meteoroid
That was the main situation, because EC is accessible, and getting something which is inaccessible, or something which is worth that currency, would be a high demand.

But for those who spend their time, and hard work onto EggCave?
I agree with your perspectives.

But totally, CC is indirectly dominating everything in one way or another. People do not want much old CS for a creature, unless its a rare one, and they would of course need CC with it.

That practice to block them from the TC would be unfair, but still them being in the TC, its hard for some certain people to obtain it.

The site can run, but the community is facing a problem. A certain way must be done to muster them.

The problem is that the freeze and Resurrection Stones trades are not possible. Freezes give rise to scams, and Revival Stones are NOT at ALL possible, unless risking ones account, which is out of the site rules.

I'd prefer the Revival Stones to be transferable, as that cannot replace CC as it has no use if no dead creatures (or creatures worth it) are there to revive. It'll help many non CC buyers to revive their creatures.

For now, the site is going smooth. But the market and the pricings for CSPs are very tremendous.
This is the FIRST time in EC that CC had such an increased value.
Here, by mentioning CC, I do not mean pure CaveCash, but creatures in the form of CaveCash. That's it.

So, for now, I guess this problem would be brought up with a shifty solution which I might have not even came up.

Deleted • 4 September 2013 at 7:43 AM

@ladynymeria .....and everyone else

If anyone thinks I was being rude please diplomatically just say so.
I was simply trying to convey a thought without hurting anyone but if I did then let me know..

Again it was not my intent to be hurtful.

karamel • 4 September 2013 at 7:54 AM

@frosted I hope you know that the 'blocking CSP creatures from the TC' thing wasn't something I was suggesting - more showing that Ian was being generous and still giving non-CC buyers a chance. (My mind is pretty much dead after going through 2 hours of science so I'm not sure how to interpret your comment on my 'suggested' situation.)

The community is indeed facing a problem. And that problem is /themselves/. We're the ones that are causing the drama (it's definitely not down to Ian or the mods). We're the ones that are reacting horribly (not just to 'bad' art) and generally showing us in bad light.

I agree that the freeze and resurrections should be transferrable but that's a discussion for something else. That's a suggestion that can actually potentially ease up the market - some people want CC for freezes (more notably than resurrection stones because a) non-CC buyers know that they can't get them anyway and b) people have more creatures to freeze than revive). I agree that this suggestion could potentially improve the CC situation - depending on how we react, obviously. Recently the biggest problems (to do with drama) have been because of us and our reactions.

Freezes, creatures and the community themselves are what makes CC so predominant. First thing to change is our attitudes IMO.

(I wanted to say more but I'm at school so I'll check this again when I have time and internet. 😸)

Deleted • 4 September 2013 at 8:16 AM

@karamel
The problem with freezes is that it can become a form of 'micro CC trading'. People will accumalate freezes, and sell creatures in form of freezes, making this essence of Litsdnats the replacement for CC trading.
Revival Stones, however do not get misused this way, and can prove much useful.

[Will write more later on, busy right now]

ems • 4 September 2013 at 9:45 AM

@ryu-20000 The fact that you're afraid you're being rude simply proves you're not darling. 😋 (You sound like a very nice person) The input you gave was constructive: you said what you thought could be better. Constructive criticism is either saying what you don't like, and how that could be fixed, or saying what you think should be added. And you did just that~

@cookiemonster *high five* (I don't think there's a specific "EC style" either. XD But whatever)
Exactly my point. If you don't like it, you need to kindly shut your trap about it and leave. Or, you can criticize in a constructive way.

purrclan • 4 September 2013 at 9:48 AM

@rosamund
I agree. I feel like we have two artists now - one who draws good creatures, and one who draws the other creatures.

Deleted • 4 September 2013 at 10:28 AM

It seemed that people were going to seperate artist. They might give the credit of the good ones to the usual person, who is given enough time, and the bad things goes as a blame onto the next people.

First of all, this topic started this. Its us to finish this stereotyped thinking and stop this criticism. Be constructive, as people have avoided using references to the artists.

Many people were rude, but if they were put in the artists' shoes, would they be able to do it in that time?
No.

Please do not criticize any artists in the future. It is all created by volunteers, and if you can beat them to the job, then keep it to yourself.
Also, those people who do not EVER buy monthlies just come up when a problem like this happens. They ACT as if they were going to buy 4-5 but will hardly purchase 1. Please do be reasonable, and there is not much problems with the cave monthlies. They're free, same as commons. Compare them with the commons, and then start criticizing EggCave for giving you some beautiful creatures for free. Making them free would be very good for certain people to have more creatures, but what happens when people dont want them?
Then don't ever bother keeping one in your cove. Please think before speaking, and don't speak on the courage of peer pressure. Even if someone is with you for excessive criticism, you will be punished, as well as that person. Please do not create a group against the artist, and publicly denounce it.
Please do suggest the artist the improvements that can be made, in a KIND way, so that they do not sense the anger, fury, rage or disappointment, so that they will also interact friendly, and try their best.
Artists are humans. They also have a life, and they might be very busy with the lives of themselves. It is hard to do so, but they did it. We need to appreciate that, the monthlies are out, rather than being delayed for a day or so.

On account of the CC problems, it is becoming really an influencing factor on everyone. Blocking the common's user access to CC, without having money, is partiality, but it is that they do get more preference of buying CC with money.
But it should be viewed in a perspective that people get creatures as soon as possible, with money, and the others get them in time, with hard work. I do not justify any people who are there to just slack around, and feel that CC will reach them, but those hard working members of the society.

CC is hard to obtain, but it should be accessible to all, making the site free in all terms. Just to get exclusive creatures you would have to work hard, and thats it.

Re-releasing creatures is an impossible task, and if possible, it would only be of recent CSPs, that is the CSPs from March to July, if having any possibilities, will be re-released (very long shot), as the drama caused in the 2011 re-release was a lot, and Ian promised not to re-release any other creatures.
People lost more than $1000 in total as they used to trade a lot for Foos, and that situation caused a lot of loss for the people who invested a lot, and resulted in quitting of most of the members of the community. It was unfair for them, and it was impossible to withdraw all operations executed, and as such, it ended in regret. If Macbots and Onnys were to be re-released, people who never had them, or got them through "rip-offs" and so would be happy, but those who spent more than 15k CC for them? They wouldnt be so happy, and would surely protest. If these creatures were in their original places, and no trades were executed, there would have been a possibility for a re-release.
But now with the increased popularity of those creatures, a re-release or a demand for it is futile and never possible.
Leave hopes on that.

Earn your cove.
Creatures are to be either bought or earned. If you cant buy them, EARN them.
To support this earning is that I support the implementation of CC in the TC.
It would result in increased CC trades, with no possibilities of scams, and thus it would bring the value of EC back to the normal 1:10,000 rate, which was more stable than the current rate of 1:20,000 which may even extend upto 30-40

Well, that's my two cents

sprite • 4 September 2013 at 11:23 AM

I think the art is just fine for what it is. Nothing amazing. There is a certain bit of whimsical that is lacking imo. Older creatures the personality shined through and to me that is lacking. Not sure where it can be corrected. As with most things older stuff is usually better while newer things yes may be better but lack what the older stuff had. Probably not wording any of this right but how I feel.

Do remember the artists are trying and I enjoy seeing the efforts being made 😊

As far as re-releases many of those who opposed are no longer here. The fact many were upset was due to the fact they were not here due to the holidays and the other 1/2 who were here and did not get them 😉 There were also many who loved it, lets not forget that part! I do think it's funny seeing those who opposed and stayed had no problem trading for that which they opposed so much lol For those who were mad at trading so much Egg Cave should not feel responsible for that because it is not. Never, ever trade more then what you are willing to lose.

Case in point that is why Egg Cavern is so popular during raffles due to the possibility of obtaining a rare retired creature. It's not done all the time and makes people happy..especially if they win. You still have to work for it (which was some of the bases for people being upset, yet not all of them "worked" for theirs either 😉 and it's all chance. It also increases traffic here which is win/win

All sites do re-releases it helps the economy and makes it exciting. Really other then trading on here it's very boring. Even trading is like pulling nails and not fun.

I'm not stating re-release them in the cave or cash shop but there are other ways.

I do think there should be other ways then trading to gain rarer older creatures. Egg Cave needs it imo.

cookiemonster • 4 September 2013 at 12:14 PM

@luvmykids244
Yes, I agree. Your point of view totally makes sense. I was also thinking that there would be less a problem with CC if there was 1 random time of year when everyone can get any creature of their choice from the Cash Shop Park, and maybe it would make people more active and want to stay on EggCave. Although there is a possibility that it would make the worth of CC go down and other problems possibly. And about the sending over CC thing, which has been blocked for a few months now, I think that it should be put back. People really enjoyed it. For example, my friend, cstarswirl, has a side called peppermint, and periwinkle has a side called peppermlnt. Someone was supposed to send CC to peppermlnt, but accidentally did peppermint. Cstarswirl was honest and did not take it as she knew it wasn't for her. These are the kind of people eggcave needs. Those who are honest and trustworthy! Btw, that was a true story.
@frosted

Deleted • 4 September 2013 at 3:01 PM

@ems

Thank You. The last thing I want to do here is to hurt other peoples feelings especially when it comes to their artwork.

Please note that I full well realize all the hard work people put into this into this site as well as all the creative creatures and believe me, I DO appreciate it.

P.S: THe Baku is still cool..besides, its's blue..and what better color is there for a dream eater, right?

Ian • 4 September 2013 at 3:41 PM

To quote @karamel:

"The community is indeed facing a problem. And that problem is /themselves/. We're the ones that are causing the drama (it's definitely not down to Ian or the mods). We're the ones that are reacting horribly (not just to 'bad' art) and generally showing us in bad light."

In terms of the CC debate, I've repeated my points exhaustively about the economy. EC is more valuable today without CC gifting.

@frosted: with CaveCash gifting gone, it's next to impossible to establish an exchange rate as you have continued to discuss. Individual users will have to start slapping an EC value on their CSP creatures (if they ever decide to trade them), which means it's up to them and solely them to determine their creatures' values. Of course, these values will fluctuate now. But in terms of an exchange rate, that'd be difficult to determine.

Unfortunately, since there are multiple threads of discussion running through this topic (art + CC), I am going to close. Thanks everybody for expressing their opinions!