New Shop Proposal: Dreamcatcher

dionaea • 17 June 2014 at 7:22 PM

Some facts:

--Eggcave is mostly based on collecting, but also rarity.
--A lot of old, very desirable creatures are practically impossible to obtain.
--Not ever being able to get your dreamy is very frustrating.
--Rereleases will decrease rarity and are therefore strongly opposed by some.



Rereleases. This has been a hotly debated issue since the time Ian put the Balrogipuwet in the Cash Shop. In my opinion rereleases into the cave or Cash Shop are not a very good idea. Because the former makes them way too common and the latter makes them available only to people with money, which is unfair. I have thought about this for a very, VERY long time and I think I've finally come up with something that may be feasible.

The shop I'm proposing is the dreamcatcher. It could be a shady little stall, like a palm reader on a fair. This shop has a separate currency which is solely obtained by being a loyal user. You can visit the shop every day and to get your dreams 'caught' (cue funny messages: "You dreamed Yeeps ate the Moon!"), these dreams would be the currency used in the store.

This way you'd get one point (dream) per day, which can not be traded or moved to a different account. Every creature would have a set price in points and be available to buy at all times. As soon as a creature retires it enters the shop. All creatures from the shop get a special pet page with a shiny banner declaring they are a dream pet. For pet prices I was thinking at least 100 points for any creature released in the cave and at least 200 points for any CC creature, with the actual price based on the type and age of the creature in question or it's rarity. It would only be allowed to visit the shop from your main account as is usual. The creatures would not be tradeable since this is meant to get people their dream creatures, not to get them trading material. Locking them in an account would also make multiple account abuse useless. Since this would make gender changes impossible for some, I also suggest the gender of the pet can be selected.

This setup would prevent the old creatures from flooding the market and it would still make it possible for a newbie to get any creature they like if they make an effort. Keep in mind: this is only one creature per 3 months at most, this won't give rise to a site full of newbies with every rare pet ever on their accounts, turning rares to commons. Collecting all pets would still involve tons of work (and probably a lot of CC).

I'm not saying everyone should be able to get ALL pets, I'm saying anyone should be able to get ANY pet if they make an effort. Everyone should have a shot at getting their dreamy! 😸


So what do you guys think? *pokes poll* 😊





EDIT: I just thought of this, but it could be made so that the shopkeeper gives you a dreamcatcher and puts dream power in it with every visit and you need your dreamcatcher to have reached a certain level of power for it to bring your dream to life. OwO

Edit2: I added rarity dependant prices and making the dreamies impossible to trade. Also selecting the gender. Not sure about limiting the number you can get, if this would be done at all I suggest a limit of 2, since that will get you a male and a female, some peeps (me included) have a thing for that x3 Another thing to possibly add is a delay between retirement and a creature showing up in the dreamcatcher.

darexxis • 19 June 2014 at 3:01 AM

@dionaea
I❤️ the idea

momokie • 19 June 2014 at 3:30 AM

@dionaea

I totally support this!

kiryko • 19 June 2014 at 3:47 AM

@dionaea It's awesome❤️❤️❤️
@wererage
@ushafuse
@novrain62
@takochu

mastergemma • 19 June 2014 at 7:24 AM

@dionaea
So...every day you log on you get a dream point and after approx 200 days you can get a creature. Hmm...I think there has to be a little more to it.

Why not have certain requirements for a creature? Like, feed 200 creatures a day for two weeks in a row and have 200 dream catcher points?

This would make it a bit harder for people to obtain the creature. Maybe there should be a limit to one or two of each species per account?


This is a very good idea, I just think it needs a little work but it's on the right track. To me it's just a little iffy with reintroducing a rare species.

kalateevolk • 19 June 2014 at 7:36 AM

@dionaea

The problem with this idea that I see is you have a set price for all CC's? Well this could be a problem being that some CC creatures are more common than a creature such as the endangered Drakamo. In my own honest opinion, the prices should be different based off the current rarity of the creature. However, I do don't see how this idea will be difficult to code by any means, it just might be complicated to have every single creature that is currently not available to be in this shop. Yes, it will take 100 days to get up to a retired LE, but wouldn't it be more interesting if the shop had only certain creatures available per day? This would also keep people from spending if they want a certain creature, and cause them to be more active because they have to check the shop every day to see what's available.

This might not be the best idea, since it take 100 days to get the LE they want (and 200 for a CC) but I feel like his might widely mess up the rarity of some of those extremely rare creatures right now. Some of these creatures, the only reason they really are valued right now is their rarity and I'm not exactly sure if it's the best idea to have them in the shop. Though some creatures like the Nym and the Biwo who are already popular, their rarity might decrease a lot after those 200 days are up.

Another issue with this is that I can see normal CC users perhaps lifting a bit off of the CC. It's hard to tell if this would happen, but if there's a creature you want but could get for free within the next month, why spend money? It could potentially hurt egg caves economy in terms of income.


Note: I have just been naming possible issues that I see with this idea. I love this idea very much, just offering the few critiques needed.

sarahzafirah • 19 June 2014 at 7:48 AM

@dionaea I love this idea, it's just that I kinda of agree with @kalateevolk about messing up the rarities of the creatures. Some rare creatures (like the Onny, for example) might have a huge increase in population within about a year.

And also, CC users can't use their cash any more since you can get them for free from the shop! It would be pointless to buy more CC and it would hurt Egg Cave's economy, like she said.

Deleted • 19 June 2014 at 8:48 AM

I love this idea but @kalateevolk made some good points. There might be an easy solution though: the user can only redeem their points for a particular species once. Points should vary depending on rarity, and also be challenging to accumulate (maybe 500-1000 points for older creatures) but you'll have opportunities to earn double/triple points by completing item missions (hopefully this feature is coming soon) for this particular shop.

I think new CSP creatures shouldn't be made available in the shop immediately after they retire, maybe after 2-3 months? Let's say new CSP creatures cost 300 points. At one point a day, with an occasional double/triple point reward, it could take roughly 200 days to accumulate the points needed to buy it. CC buyers could buy it when it was originally released for 500cc in a matter of seconds.

I'm pretty sure most people would rather trade for the newer creatures like how we all currently do and save up points for the retired creatures that are nearly impossible to find UFT these days. Users who recently joined or just came back from hiatus would still want to obtain the new CSPs and trade for them too.

Also pretty certain that we'll all still want to use freezes, resurrection stones, etc. on our other creatures though so CC shouldn't be rendered completely useless.

Oh, it just occurred to me that since these pets are the manifestation of dreams, we shouldn't be allowed to trade them.......because they have a special link to the owner's dreamcatcher that would be severed by another user's dreamcatcher and the creature would completely disappear? Or something? Maybe that could be implemented to help values and rarities or whatever.

kalateevolk • 19 June 2014 at 9:02 AM

@hybridrainbow

The "redeem a creature once" might make this idea plausible. I almost feel like it would have to be in separate categories though, some creatures I don't think should even end up in the shop. Perhaps there could be a cut off on it due to how rare the creature is. In my opinion, creatures that should never be in the shop:

- Halloween LE's from the previous year (like wait a year for them since they have a little game of their own of collecting seeds)
- Any creature with a rank of a specific number [such as a creature with rank of 295 or above (don't know if that's to much creatures cut off or not). Will change due to the number of creatures that will get added]
- Easter creatures are special to those who completed the egg hunt so I'm not really sure if they should be aloud
- Retired science lab creatures if a time for the were to come. I know none are retired as of right now but it may occur in the future
- Asteroid creatures

what do you guys think? I think it should really just be limited to LE's in the cave and cash shop. Event Plot in there sort of defeated the purpose of those creatures in the first place. The only exception to Event Plot I can see are Creature release week (in the cave) and Halloween creatures (which are obtained from a similar thing. Except the points as Kinump seeds)

Deleted • 19 June 2014 at 9:21 AM

@kalateevolk
I agree, especially where event/plot and asteroid creatures are concerned.

The thing with the rarity table that I've noticed is that some creatures that most users would say are worth more are placed higher on the list than some that are worth less simply because it wasn't as popular or in demand as the others. Like the wigglet and hoppit compared to the keekee and revii.

purrclan • 19 June 2014 at 9:24 AM

@dionaea
This sounds intriguing. Personally, I think this is the best 'make-retired-creatures-available' idea I've seen yet.
Unfortunately, Ian said after the Christmas re-release (and ensuing backlash) that he would never bring back retired creatures again.
So great idea, but it will have to remain in theoretics ☹️

dionaea • 19 June 2014 at 2:18 PM

Oh wow, this exploded 😱 Thank you for the support guys 😸 Unfortunately I can still only ping 5 people I think, so I'll ping the peeps with doubts 😊

@mastergemma
I think a limit would't really be neccesary, the number of points required could be higher for the really rare ones to prevent them becoming overly common.

@kalateevolk
The set price is only for the 'regular' CC creatures, not the really rare ones like Doovoo, Macbot, Onnie and Gobbler and other older or event CCs, those would be more expensive. I was more referring to the monthlies with these prices. The same goes for the cave critters. The prices are just an indication.
As for your concern regarding CC, I think the effect would be very small. There are over 24 CC creatures being released each year and the number of retired CC creatures is huge, this would get you a maximum of a little less than 2 CC critters a year (even less if you're saving up for the really rare ones). I can tell from experience that a lot of people will not be able to make do with just two CC pets a year.
I don't think any retired creatures should be kept out. The asteroid ones aren't retired, so they wouldn't be in there anyway.

@hybridrainbow
I like your ideas 😱 A delay could definitely be done and I like the possibility to increase your point gain a bit using item missions 😃 I was trying to think of something similar, but could only come up with feeding and making a lot of feeding a requirement would be really unfair to users with slow connections, so I didn't mention it. And the thing you noticed with the older pets being less rare but harder to get is because a lot are stuck immortal on abandoned/inactive accounts. This is why I think prices should be based on how old the pets are and how (long?) they were released. I also like the idea of these pets being locked in the account where they were obtained, though this might give some issues with people who switch mains o.o

@purrclan
No offense to Ian, but I think the backlash was because he went about it the wrong way. Some people were unhappy because their prize pet was available to anyone without any effort involved, others because they were unlucky at the cave and yet others because they missed the event altogether. Like this the pets aren't truly rereleased, they're made available only if you're willing to make a really big effort. They're not being given away, nor are they for simply for sale. Some users would grumble a bit but I doubt there would be a backlash like that. Also, I think it's quite possible Ian will reconsider. 😊

trig • 19 June 2014 at 2:25 PM

@dionaea

I can see that this certainly is a well, thought-out plan. I like that you acknowledge four crucial points at the beginning of your post -- very important.

Before I start with my opinion, what would be the probability of getting a "dream"? Is it less than 1%? Is it more or less than getting an Asteroid creature?

alannah • 19 June 2014 at 2:25 PM

@dionaea
I highly support this idea! I love it ❤️

dionaea • 19 June 2014 at 2:36 PM

@trig
There's no chance involved actually, you get one dream every day you visit the shop and save them up until you have enough to get the creature you want.

@alannah
Thank you, I'm glad you like it 😃 I really hope it gets made 😸

mairbear • 19 June 2014 at 3:01 PM

@dionaea

LOVE this idea and the discussion points already mentioned!
I like the quests idea especially (gives us more to do and increases site activity overall), not to mention, makes the reward all the more satisfying. I also support the idea to base prices off of rarity.

I don't think there should be restrictions of which creatures are available though. Everyone likes something different, why exclude certain creatures? If the idea is to make it possible to acheive any dreamy with hard work, why undermine that?

I also like the idea to make them untradeable, but they should be transferable between your own accounts.

trig • 19 June 2014 at 3:48 PM

@dionaea

If a user gets a "dream" per day by visiiting the shop, then I don't think it is a viable plan.

Let's set up a hypothetical situation: I go to the shop 'x' amount of times to get 'x' amount of points for a Doovoo. You proposed 200 pts for a CC creature. That being said, it would only take 200 days to get one of the rarest creatures on Eggcave. Even if you raise that number, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

"Loyalty" is a great word, but I get ticked off at it because sure, you visit Eggcave every day and you should be rewarded. But going for a finite number of days to obtain one of the best creatures? Personally, I don't like that idea. You mention that users worked hard for their rare creatures back then. Now, it would take that "hard work away" (yes, hard work for a few pixels) by simply visiting a link for 'x' days. This also ties in with Christmas 2011. Of course, those creatures are rare, but they aren't that prized after the incident.

Perhaps if this idea is only extended to a certain set of cave creatures (monthlies, CRW, but no other ones like VDay, St. Patrick's, etc.) then that would work. But for CSPs? Nah...

kalateevolk • 19 June 2014 at 3:52 PM

@dionaea

but still. The event creatures, their sol-purpose is to be a prize. To have them back defeats the purpose of them. *sigh* I get what you're saying. It takes forever to get just one creature, but to have every single retired creature ever as an option seems a bit much.

I'm just offering criticism because I would like to see an option like this in the future. Maybe for event plot, there could be something extra to be done. I never did the Easter egg hunts but I have always wanted the creatures. I feel like they're more special though if you go through the experience. Just my personal opinion though.

But it's your idea. I seem to fall in the minority with restrictions.

immortalraven • 19 June 2014 at 4:09 PM

I like the idea.
I don't care either way if things are rereleased but seeing as they are so expensive (pretty unfairly so also) and hard to get for some people I think this is good. Though maybe make it a bit harder.
The old rarer creatures mostly only users from that time they were released got them, granted some have traded and newerish users have gotten some but it gets harder and harder once the years go by. It's unfair for newer users that the older ones some of which have quit and just leave their critters to rot and such. And now that CC transfers aren't possible it makes it harder since that's mostly all people want. That's the only way I got most my older CCs, from trading newer LEs for CC and so on but now it's harder for people that don't have CC.

I don't see why stuff like this people whine and cry so much and be against it. They'd have more a chance ta get the rarer ones they want too, but seeing as most the people I see who are against it are ones that have some good critters it's all based on value going down for them, granted not all against it have rareish critters but most I've seen are.

I've seen a crapton of other sites that rerelease critters, usually those are the friendlier sites. As there isn't so much competition and value base but just based on getting critters you like and having fun and talking, granted yes there is still trading and such but people don't yell at you if it's an under offer like here since the critters here are so high valued and such. Which makes it so hard for new users of which a lot I've seen quit because people rudely tell them they have nothing worth it, granted not everyone words it as rude but some do on here and expect people to know values. The other sites don't like rerelease things everyday but in event(s) and they keep value pretty well, they stay the same value as they were.

takochu • 19 June 2014 at 7:49 PM

@dionaea


LOVE this!

mejary • 19 June 2014 at 8:06 PM

@dionaea I think i like this idea, but it should be more than 100 points so it would take more effort and time to get the creature, also i think it should only be available for those users who have more than a year, with this they can get their dreamies or other people dreamies 😸

trig • 19 June 2014 at 8:27 PM

@immortalraven

Good explanation.

But what do you mean by "friendlier" sites? I find EC is friendly and fair. Fair in the sense that given one purchases CC, that person can get a good cove, etc. Fair in the sense that older users are "special-er" because they have been here for a long time and have good creatures.

Eggcave is very child-friendly -- look at the recent creature releases. 😋

sarahsaurus • 19 June 2014 at 8:36 PM

@dionaea
I think that if this suggestion was created, users would automatically be increasing the population of very rare creatures. I think that this, although it is a great idea, would be too big of an addition. It would put a smaller concentration on trading, and make the site more about the dreams than actually working hard and trading for your dream creatures.

I have an idea for this:
There should be a probability of obtaining a creature with your dreams. For example, common creatures have an almost 100% chance of being dreamed, while rarer creatures have a very small percent chance of being dreamed. This would prevent rare creatures from popping up all over the place and depleting their values. So, maybe something like:
Horsca: 95% chance
Torget: 60% chance
Roasen: 20% chance
Khione: 9% chance
Clocat: 5% chance
Raicorn: 3% chance
Onny: 1% chance
Macbot: 0.05% chance

misa • 19 June 2014 at 8:53 PM

I feel like old creatures would not decrease in value because they will be very hard to obtain so in turn there would be very few users who will actually stick with it and gain enough points to get them. I have some semi-rare creatures on @promise and I don't really feel that my cove value will decrease.

trig • 19 June 2014 at 8:56 PM

@sarahsaurus

Those probabilities are actually very high. 😋
I'd go exponentially:

Current cave creatures: 5%
[Current Year] Monthlies: 2.5%
[Current Year - 1] Monthlies: 1.25%
[Current Year - 2] Monthlies: 0.625%
[Current Year - 3] Monthlies: .3125%
Not-as-rare event creatures (such as Shillas, Brohu, Foo(?)): 0.15625%
[Current Year] CSP: ...
[Current Year - 1] CSP: half of the above
...

Make sense?

As one can clearly see, there is still a chance to get a creature, but it is quite low. I'd much prefer this than redeemable points. Redeemable points are good at quests though.

**EDIT: I just tried some numbers and had to re-adjust them.

sarahsaurus • 19 June 2014 at 9:05 PM

@trig
But then again you'd have to wait for each try to get a creature.
If it's 200 dreams for a cc creature, as stated on the first post of the topic, that's roughly 6.5 months if someone gets a dream each day.
With extremely low probabilities like that, it almost wouldn't be worth it to try getting a nice creature.
Let's say it's 200 dreams for a pandai, and the probability is 1%. That'd take 650 months, or about 54 years, to get one. 😱
Maybe my probabilities should be a little lower.. 😋 but I don't think they should be that low.
Sorry if this sounded like I was bettering your ideas, but I just think that it wouldn't make it worth it to try and get rare creatures if probabilities were extremely low like that. Please don't take this as an offense… ;-;

immortalraven • 19 June 2014 at 9:19 PM

@trig
Friendlier as in people aren't as rude about a lot of things mostly things about trades. When I started a bunch of older users laughed at my wishlist because I had lots of rares. That is not friendly at all. I have seen that with others on here too. I have not yet experience or seen that on other sites mostly due ta the fact they give rereleases and newer users get a bit rarer critters to trade. Yes there are nice people here but I have seen and talked to a lot more rude people on here than any other site and I'm a lot cause I use these sites to get away from my crap family life though this is the only one I've thought of quitting cause sometimes it is as bad as my family. Yes there are probably cases of rudeness on the other sites but still. And a lot of users I saw quit because of people being rude and them not being able to get wishlist. The other week I saw someone almost but I talked to them and told em there are nicer users too and if they try and work up they can maybe get some wishlists but at this rate only a few users have really rares either cause they're old or CC buyers which makes it hard so the reason I like the idea a bit but it should be more difficult since people should have to work for things they want but it shouldn't be close near immpossible for em like it is now.

It's fair for those users not all. All can't obtain those creatures so it is not fair for all. And I don't consider anyone specialer since everyone is basically the same. We are unique but not more special than anyone else
Eggcave itself is friendly. The users are what I am talking about 😋 And mostly the bad sides of people come out in trading here. The critters themselves are friendly though 😋

And I agree @misa I've seen on other sites the values didn't change

trig • 19 June 2014 at 10:08 PM

@sarahsaurus

No offense taken. It's good that we're arguing. 😉 I don't have concrete, real numbers to support my argument (since I don't truly know what the p(x) is for asteroids) but CSPs should be lower than that.

@immortalraven

I agree with you on 95% of what you said – don’t necessarily think it’s not fair for all users. People who are on the site early and stay have some upper-hand than a user who joined, since they had access to previous creatures. Once you’re in the game, you have a fair advantage of what comes next. That’s the fair part to me. IMO, if you’re late to the game, you’re late. 😋 Same thing with other sites. If something is retired before you come on, you can either say “eh, it’s OK, I’ll aim for other goals,” or “ugh, I’m so done with this site!” It’s up to the devs to make the EC experience special and to entice new users without letting go of old users.

sarahsaurus • 19 June 2014 at 10:15 PM

@trig
I suppose you're right, my numbers should be lower considering how many people/users would be getting critters. But this idea is kinda shaky overall- I feel like it might cause a eggcave controversy to some users 😋

misa • 19 June 2014 at 10:30 PM

@sarahsaurus @trig

The original idea wasn't about % chances. It was about a point system like the one used for collecting halloween seeds in exchange for creatures. What you guys are saying is more like the asteroid where you have a small chance of getting an egg. I prefer @dionaea's original idea of points so loyal members have a better chance of getting the creatures they want rather than a lucky newbie who gets a rare creature within their first week.