The Problem With EggCave

darkwarrior • 31 January 2020 at 12:08 PM

Let's be completely honest here.

This problem has been prevalent for a long time, and I felt the need to properly address it, so here we go.

EggCave creatures are going down in quality.

When we take a look at this month's CRWs, the problem is much more evident. Exhibits A and B: The Snainle and the Succutelent have a direct connection to the looks of the Snawler and the Diminuaith. The comparisons made here can be applicable to many other new creatures that are being released. And if they aren't similar in design, they're often visually unappealing, such as the Crimsoon. The newer creatures don't really compare to the older legends released, like the Biwo or even the Tervita.

This is also apparent in the new travels and items that are spit out every week or so. Items such as snow cone mountains and regular burgers with stars on the toothpicks aren't what draws in a huge audience of players.

All of this is of course in no way, the fault of the EggCave artists. Rather, there is a huge strain on designing more and more creatures every month and having a different design every time that the audience will have a favorable reaction to. It's extremely difficult to come up with something completely new every single month on end without reusing designs. This is the real problem with EggCave: There is a major creativity issue with the way the site is run.

More and more will begin to quit or become inactive because of the way the site updates are. Nothing new is being added. The auctions are the same, the functions are the same, the same events happen every year, and the creature designs are getting less and less appealing. The click exchange is barely used. Most on EggCave spend their time feeding, which is really just clicking one button after another, for hours on end. Users are getting bored of doing the same routine every single day.

Looking at other successful online games such as Animal Jam or League of Legends, there is a very obvious common theme: New features are continuously added to the games.

When several of my friends quit EggCave in 2018, they all did so for the same reason. EggCave was getting stale. When I attempted to introduce another to the site, they stopped playing for a couple of days. Why? They said that there simply wasn't enough to do, and they found the site boring.

I've had a couple of people send private messages, asking me to write this article, so obviously, this is a problem that is present throughout the community.

Just a note that many people on EggCave do really enjoy the repetitiveness of EggCave, and working towards building their cove. And I completely respect that.

But if EggCave wants to grow, they need to change. Something new, something fresh, something that keeps people on their toes, anticipating the next great thing.

sparklefox • 31 January 2020 at 12:54 PM

@darkwarrior - I agree with the points you're making about the CRW creatures. Compared to what we got from CRW within the past few years (to pick some of my favourites out, creatures such as the Arkchie, Yarayaho, Specouro and Horrorse), the designs of these are pretty weak. I mean, one of them is a plant with a face drawn onto the pot...

The only interesting one we got was the Kasaii since it felt fairly unique, but it was also unfitting with the pretty bland cute and "kawaii" theme. Part of me thinks that it was a leftover from last year that they tried to fit into this year's theme, since it's very obviously based on the kasa-obake. The Ruum sounded really interesting when I read the description, but I was disappointed when I saw its stages. The best thing they could come up with for a gooey space cat was... a sparkly lump vaguely in the shape of a cat sitting on top of a plant pot that looks more like an ice cream cone?

I agree that the Crimsoon is unappealing to look at, too. The creature isn't drawn very well, in my opinion. It isn't even an original design anyway - it's just a recoloured version of the moon from Majora's Mask. I also agree that there are far too many items released every month, and they're all uninteresting as each other. My first thought whenever I see a notification for a new blog post is "this will just be new items".

I don't mind the repetitiveness of Egg Cave, but that might just be because I use it as a 'five minute time waster' and I'm not hugely invested in it. Building up my cove slowly is rather fun, but it isn't all that important to me. I wouldn't mind seeing something new - in fact, I'd love to.

beta • 31 January 2020 at 1:58 PM

@sparklefox @darkwarrior

I agree some of the CRWs could have been a bit better. However, I don’t feel all the creatures are ever going to be appealing to everybody. I rather like the crimsoon, however I see no appeal in a macbot. I also quite like the new items, since they make quests more interesting, and give item collectors something to do. I think repetitiveness is bad in itself, but when mixed with new things, I think too many new things would make people feel overwhelmed, so the mix of repetitive things with it helps the site be more payed back. League of Legends and Animal Jam are filled with players that grind 24/7 for new things, and the community is nearly not as friendly as Eggcave. Would you like the Animal Jam community on eggcave? Some people won’t like the site, it’s just a fact of life. People like their lives, even with the same repetitive day. My favorite creatures actually happen to consist of some of the newer creatures, such as the Tortell, Krusdot, and the glimmerkin @moonweaver stole them all though ☹️). Anyway I do not believe most people quit because of the site, but because of real life getting in the way. I stay around for the people, that keeps the site going. The creatures are fun and all, but I think people mainly stay here for the people.

skymoare • 31 January 2020 at 2:32 PM

@stevepat2002 @sparklefox @darkwarrior

I also agree that the CRW creatures could have been better. Although, as stated before this is mainly by preference, for some of the creatures were loved by many players. Creatures from when I first joined (2016) were definitely, in my opinion, more appealing then they are now. I collect creatures not because of rarity, but the designs from back then really catch my eye. This site has definitely changed from when I first joined. It's more organized in my opinion. But I do enjoy new additions. I feel that a new update once in a while, like one every one or two years would make this site more enjoyable for some players. I feel that new creatures released that aren't based off the older creatures would be a good start. Having more creativity with creatures would be a good start.

valorieviolet • 31 January 2020 at 4:13 PM

I really just wanted to pop in and say this one thing: Egg Cave also put out the Lonto this month and, imo, it was beautifully done and you can tell that the artist put a lot of time into in it. It would have been nice to have that same energy put towards the CRW creatures.

pwuffy • 31 January 2020 at 5:00 PM

to add my two cents: i think the sheer volume of creatures released every month really adds to this because the more creatures you have, the harder it is to have creative, original designs. i did feel like past CRWs have been stronger (or at least, the ones i've been active for) and the creatures that really stood out to me were the innu and nyanka this year. personally i would prefer less frequent creature releases for higher quality creatures but i definitely understand that not everyone wants that, its just my opinion 😊

as for adding new features, i very much agree. more events/plots would be fun, if nothing else. i'm not sure if there has been a plot since the asteroid plot in 2016 (but looking at the history page, i don't see one), but that plot was so much fun and it seemed like the entire community loved it. i would love to see more things like that added to the site to get people excited and involved/engaged in the community more 😊 i know its a lot of work though!

edit: it is also worth mentioning that i think the team has put out some fantastic designs recently, too, though. the trask and lonto are great! i absolutely adore the trask. it is probably one of my favorite designs the site has ever had 😊

moonweaver • 31 January 2020 at 6:20 PM

@stevepat2002

Dude, you stole all the krusdots

Anyway, most people don't quit because of the quality of creatures... The majority are real life getting in the way, and some are because of the community and the fact that EC says that they'll never re-release old CSP creatures. I think the CRW was pretty good, the new art update for the two Xmas creatures was great too 😊 And while I'm on this topic, the users are mostly leaving from the three reasons I listed, however, ECs community isn't as bad as some games I've played, but does need a little work :/ 😃

beta • 31 January 2020 at 6:27 PM

@moonweaver I mean you're not wrong...

wigglytuff • 31 January 2020 at 6:31 PM

@pwuffy I also agree that eggcave could release less creatures ^^ I’m sure it’ll be less stress on the artists/designers and also for people that come back from hiatus, they’ll have to learn less names xD

But I do appreciate everything the designers and artists do. I personally truly believe that they’re trying their best 😊

Deleted • 31 January 2020 at 7:30 PM

@stevepat2002
I do agree with what you're saying. "The creatures are fun and all, but I think people mainly stay here for the people."
I have had thoughts of quitting, on the bad days of my life, but hey life has it's ups and downs and the people here are great! I tend to keep to myself, and mostly converse with those as of when I feel like it. So, yeah. The people I meet here are all positive people who make my life happy.

@skymoare
Me too! I stopped my goal of getting every EggCave creature, and now I'm going to just keep and buy the ones that have prettier designs (to me) as I like them better.
______________________________________________________________________
EggCave is a great place to be. However, the price rates for older creatures gets higher and higher. I mean, it's great for business, but if I need to pay 400CC for the Pu instead of 200CC.. it gets a little much as a better option would be to buy another new CSP (creatures) that costs only 200CC.

I recently started Hay Day again, haven't touched that game in 2 years 😊 But, just like any buying/selling feature in a game... People want to profit. There are generous people, and I've gotten gifts from them which helped me build my cove. This actually encouraged me to continue.
I love the older CSP's (creatures) but basing the price on the current price guide is a little much. Like the 2017 CSPs (creatures) have doubled to tripled in value from the original price..

The items, EggCave doesn't need to release so many items. But, anywho this has been me complaining for the last 20-40 lines and doesn't address any solutions to the problem.
EggCave could reduce the prices in Cash Shop Park for the freezing potion and rebirth. I mean, if it was reduced, I would be more willing to spend CC on freezing my favorite creatures.

Next, allowing us to change the color scheme, like a vote perhaps. As letting us all change the colors would make it a lot more complex. Like if there was a voting poll for the Pu or the Amoryn, I would choose slightly brighter colors that can show off the smaller details.

Some people like names, especially release date names, for those that are interested.. idk maybe another lottery?

To help with the quality of the designs, essentially EggCave should pick our brains on it. If you toss an essay question to one person, and tell him to repeat writing the essay, he'll be coming up with similar ideas from the first essay. Unless, well, unless you're an imaginative person with unconventional ideas.
What can you do to a grape?
1. Eat it
2. Use it as a decoration
3. Blow it up (explode)
4. Drink it
5. Pretend it's a purple balloon (basically decoration..)
6. WHat Else?

This discussion could be linked to the other, Adopt rather than delete.
https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/72767?page=2#1595247

In any case, this message is a wall of text. I'll stop now.. for now.

sprite • 31 January 2020 at 11:54 PM

I've been here for a long time and the art quality comes in waves. I do love some. Is it the same amount of love when I first started? Nope. It's also hard to do something every one likes which that comes in waves as well Did not like this last CRW at all. Also have loved some.

Yes, more plots and events. Especially change them up some.

The prices of creatures are just crazy. I and others try to do what we can with giveaways etc but it's also annoying when you see people trade them for top value too. This is why re-releasing would be great even the older CC's. Sites I play at that re-release old stuff prosper and always excitement at would could get brought back. Yes, it's been a good start with vend.

Personally love the toothpick star burger and the Trask, Volpe and Doomwalker cause it's just so weird which I love. Again different tastes and are some examples. Do have some people here I love talking to as well 😊 Love my store too and restocking for it. that keeps me the most busy 😊

Deleted • 1 February 2020 at 4:54 AM

darkwarrior • 2 February 2020 at 11:58 PM

@stevepat2002
I'm definetly not suggesting we bring the Animal Jam and League of legends community into ours (how terrifying). Those were just two random big games that popped up into my head at the moment.

Also for @stevepat2002 and @moonweaver, @valorie100

I was mostly trying to illustrate the point that most successful games are successful because they update often. And yeah, I guess the creature designs are preference-based; it would be unfair to label them generally as "ugly" since everyone has a different viewpoint. I'm mostly going along with the way I feel about those designs, and what people have said about them.

Maybe most people don't quit because of the site, but a lot of people never join the community in the first place because they find the site to be boring. All-in-all, the majority of the world aren't like EggCave players- they have far less patience and crave more excitement when playing games.

@sinthr
You do bring up some good points, however, the pay-to-win aspect of EggCave is inevitable. The site creators and artists need to earn money to support themselves and their families. Like with most games, EggCave has in-game purchases but can be enjoyed still without spending a single penny.

Deleted • 3 February 2020 at 3:27 AM

pouncessoftly • 3 February 2020 at 10:53 AM

@sinthr

I totally agree it would be amazing to have another way to earn EC other than feeding. I know I'm one of the odd people who finds feeding calming, I can literally feed for hours and it doesn't bother me - I have either music playing or am watching a movie and just ... go. Granted with OCCR down, I'm struggling a bit more than I usually do but hopefully it'll be back up soon. xD

Just some mini games like Flight Rising has would be a great addition 😊 Especially one like Artifracture (I think that was the name, it's been a couple years since I've been active on FR)

netherling • 3 February 2020 at 1:23 PM

@darkwarrior
With Eggcave, I've been here for going on...8 years, and I have lost interest before. But that was because I was tired of searching for creatures I wanted and getting shot down by the insanely high prices, so I went on hiatus for over a year. I came back after seeing an eggcave ad, started a new account (my current), and have been here ever since. @sinthr has many good points about that too, those insanely high prices for older creatures have more than tripled since when I went on a hiatus. A re-release is more than needed now, and a lot of money will be made for the site if it's done. That money could in part be put towards adding new features, like getting someone who knows how to make games (like the ones neopets has) and that would give us more ways to win higher amounts of EC in one go. I've been here forever and only have 4mil ec saved up lol.
Also, the users that are as old as and older than me that want the "rarity" of old cash shop creatures to stay where they are are selfish. They want people to look at their coves with envy, knowing that they couldn't get half those creatures without a huge sacrifice. Even then, a lot of the old creatures that are uft are only uft for equally as old creatures. So a sacrifice couldnt even be made. They have to wait for those same old users to quit and MAYBE decide to give away their creatures.

BUT

As far as the new creatures go, I have seen some repeat designs, but I think that's just art style really. We see similarities because the art is by the same artist with different creatures. I think there have been a lot of really cute new creatures, and that the creature suggestion forums are being looked at more to bring in fresh new ideas. There's no more originality in the world anymore, but old ideas can be twisted and modified to bring in something unfamiliar.

darkwarrior • 11 February 2020 at 9:40 AM

@sinthr
True. There should definitely be a better way of getting EC other than feeding, especially since feeding is probably one of the dullest functions of the game.

@pouncessoftly
EggCave has been hinting at something in their site blogs, so maybe we'll see something new soon.

@netherling
The debate about old cash shop creatures is quite complicated. It's a sticky situation where it would be quite difficult for EggCave to sort out without someone being upset. I suppose the best compromise that they've come up with so far is the addition of the VEND machine.

I'm not the biggest fan of the new creatures that they've introduced- I really think it's just burn out from the artists; that it's difficult to come up with something new every month for over 10 years now.

netherling • 11 February 2020 at 1:11 PM

@darkwarrior
You're not wrong, and honestly with any choice there's always going to be someone that's upset about it. There's a lot more good than bad in a re-release.
Pros:
Old creatures go below multiple hundreds of $$$.
Roughly 80% of the site is happy since they voted for it.
More creatures are added to the pool giving more people a shot at their real dreamies.
More players stay since their goals are actually obtainable.
More money would be brought into the site to help with adding more features.

Cons:
Rarities drop
Some users will be upset they paid a lot for a creature that's not worth that price anymore.
Users wont be able to flaunt certain creatures like they do now.

More pros than cons really, as far as I see it.
Since less people would delete their accounts if they had obtainable goals to work towards, and less creatures would be deleted or left to die as a result. Usually the people who delete their accounts have cave commons in their cove and most people (except collectors) wont take them ☹️ so theres a bit of trouble there too.

decay • 11 February 2020 at 2:52 PM

I read a lot of discussion about rereleases and a lot of people are demonizing people who are iffy about rereleases especially if they have older creatures.

While I do want rereleases because the economy is getting impossible, I think it shouldn’t be as easily obtained out of concern for value.

My concern for value comes less from wanting to have an unobtainable cove but about the effort I put in to find my dreamies. Imagine spending days and weeks looking for a creature and trade multiple csp’s that you like for that 1 creature, until you finally have it. Only to find out it was rereleased and it could be obtained way easier than all the effort you put into it. It’s kind of a slap in the face... especially because of the value change and all the creatures you traded for that creature could of been kept.

While of course I, and most people, would be glad that other people could get the creature seeing it being rereleased is a little frustrating because you spent so much effort trying to get that creature.

It doesn’t even have to be with super old creatures this could apply to some of the more recent, 2017-2018 creatures.

I just think in order to respect the work of people we should rerelease but rerelease with consideration


I do agree that we have too many creature though and some ideas are getting a little stale however, I believe that this somewhat comes down to the artist and people putting out ideas because I feel like there’s always great ideas floating and we’ve seen some of them (:

beta • 11 February 2020 at 3:16 PM

@decay

I really don’t believe in the rerelease of most creatures, some are fine, like the ones in vend right now. I do believe that the big 5 shouldn’t be so expensive, but I’m like 110% against their rerelease. Now before anyone starts hating on me, here’s why...
First of all, Eggcave needs a point. No point, no players. It’s simple really. One of people’s goals on Eggcave is to get these creatures. If we make it too easy, people, well, don’t play. Most people we see quit or leave are actually users with many rare creatures. It gets boring if everyone has everything they want. With this, there’s no trading, no ec, and overall just nothing.
Another thing, Eggcave needs to make money. True the artists are mostly players, and sometimes their art is stale, they still need to pay them. This is not to mention the other bills that go along with it. People that buy CC are the main source of income for this site, which I’m fine with because of two reasons. One, it doesn’t intrude on my screen if I don’t want to buy it, and 2 it keeps ads away. If we started rereleasing everything that people spent cc for, there’s no need to buy cc, and then they stop making money from it, forcing them to take other measures. However, on the point of funds, I am a firm believer in Eggcave merch, but that’s another subject all together.
Lastly, most users base their stance on something of value based on how much they like it. I know I worded that badly, but that’s what I said... sadly, there are some users that base wether or not they want something solely off value, normally from a guide, making it even worse. But if we just had everything be the same value, this could help people get what they want. The previous statement may seem like a contradiction to what I previously said, but if everyone had what they wanted, they’d leave. There’s no point in staying anymore.

My thoughts on the matter of rerelease...

pwuffy • 11 February 2020 at 4:07 PM

i do think certain creatures should be re-released. i kinda understand the reasoning behind not wanting to rerelease CSPs but i think cave creatures should EVENTUALLY be re-released. however i agree they shouldn't be handed out like candy. a balance should be found so that they're still valuable, but attainable.

my issue with EC as it stands now on the topic of re-releasing creatures is that there are some creatures that are virtually unobtainable. your chances of even seeing someone put them UFT are slim to none. its no coincidence that if you see someone who is still active with these specific creatures, they're *usually* gifted to them by someone who quit or something... because actually trying to trade for them is near impossible. even if someone has one UFT, good luck ever having an offer that is even close to good enough :/

it would certainly help motivate people because the goal would be in sight again. there shouldn't be a million of these creatures, but enough to stir the economy again, get people trading, and allow people to actually realistically work for their goals again. if some people are upset about it, well, you can't please everyone... in my opinion its more fun to be able to trade and reach for your goals/see your friends reach their goals!

on a side note i realize some creatures ARE being re-released through the VEND but if i'm being completely honest i am really not a big fan of the questing system right now and i wish rereleases would be event-only or something 😊 (or change how quests are. idk) thats just my opinion though, sorry for rambling haha

nut • 11 February 2020 at 5:18 PM

I've been on Eggcave since 2009 (started with a different account) and I definitely agree with everything that's been said here. I quit for 3-ish years in the middle due to a combination of real life (going to college, etc) and disinterest. And the few times during the 3 years that I tried to return, it seemed the amount of species had doubled each time. I agree w/ previous sentiments that two CSP and two cave creatures per month is a little overkill. At what point does it become unsustainable? I'd much rather have re-releases of creatures, even as an older player who's worked hard to get some things.

I especially agree with @decay about making stuff hard to obtain (for value reasons) but still possible, rather than completely unobtainable.

Mostly the vast amount of new creatures and items is really overwhelming and it's so easy to lose interest when designs are repeated or decreasing in quality.

Thanks @darkwarrior for starting such a constructive / thought-provoking discussion 😊

raccoon • 11 February 2020 at 5:43 PM

I absolutely think more events would liven the game up a LOT. They don't have to be massive and complicated, but something engaging would be great.

I know a lot of us in the community have a lot of ideas, but I honestly just think the Eggcave team is too small. They work so hard and I appreciate them so much, but I think they could use a few more members.