Possible Re-release idea

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 3:32 PM

So I know this has been thought over many times by many people with many opinions about the manner, but I figured I may as well throw this out into the sea of EggCave for discussion.

CSP re-releases! It's definitely going to happen at some point. Prices have gotten insane on some CSPs, and the value of CC is held rather low. I know that some users will inevitably hate the idea of re-releasing the rarest-of-the-rare species they bent over to obtain, but I think it'd be for the better.
However, I think it would be bad to have a CSP re-release like the tine (as in a onny being sold for the original release price for everyone to purchase). As Ian stated in the Official Species Re-release Discussion "we are NOT considering re-releasing CSP creatures for a lesser CC amount than when they were first released". Meaning that if a Biwo was to be re-released, it would have to be purchased for 500cc, instead of the 10k+cc value it has gained.

To not totally tank the value of creatures while still re-releasing them, I'd suggest something like the following:

Have a "Cash Shop ____cc Box" - these boxes will contain creatures sold at the ___cc amount when they were first released. (Biwo in 500cc - Fourbon in 200cc)
However you cannot choose what creature you get, instead it will be randomized, with the chance of the creature getting lower the older it is. These boxes will also not have species from the current year available due to end of the year 500cc re-releases. (maybe even from the past year as well so things have time to gain value, for EX if we had it right now, prizes would be from 2009-2018). This would prevent a major crash in the value of old CSPs, yet would still leave trading as a major way to gather creatures. --- Aside from keeping value and trading, it would also help CC gather value again, and (for site income) increase CSP sales.
This box would also not be available all the time. It might only be available for a week at a time around events - such as Eggcave Birthday, Christmas, and maybe Easter/Valentines. I say a week because otherwise people would spam buy cc. (but for all I care - go for 2 weeks, I just think people should consider their wallet)

So that's just an idea, feel free to discuss! 😃

Pings:
@ian
@iia
@mami
@immortalraven
@firedawn

mami • 19 February 2020 at 3:38 PM

As someone who at one point has owned every creature but the doovoo and macbot at least once, full support. There's rare and then there's insane, and the market is leaning seriously towards the latter.

With the introduction of the end of year sale, the gap between old and new only grew; it has only become more impossible to obtain most things. Users dont want cc for their old creatures, they want other creatures. But only ones that are at least semi old, except owners of those dont usually want cc or newer creatures either. Its a vicious cycle.

Although it should be done correctly, of course. As much as I enjoy having six tines, future rereleases should be done differently. 😋

netherling • 19 February 2020 at 4:28 PM

@prairie I actually really like this idea. It would help if we as a site got to vote on what went into the boxes rather than leaving it up to random chance and get something that is still traded around freely. Like with the Vend, because if I'm paying CC for something, I don't want to get a creature that no one wants, just because it was in the cash shop at some point and therefore qualifies to be in the box.

With these boxes, there's a chance that you can get what you want, and even if you don't, you could possibly get the dreamy of someone who's trading your dreamy, so that would help. Either that or trading for the CC lol. Honestly there are a lot of creatures out of circulation because they've found their forever coves already, so it's way past time to re-introduce more to the trading pool. More so CC creatures than cave creatures. (The fact that any creatures have gone beyond $100 is ridiculous in itself, and most people don't even want CC, they want other rares because they know CC wont get them what they want either, just like it won't get us what they're trading away.)
People seem to forget that rarity is determined by a lot of things, not just one thing. That a creature that was mostly unwanted can be rare because no one bought it. In reality, it's not even rarity that they want to preserve, its the amount of demand with a tiny supply. Because if an unwanted "rare" got re-released, no one would protest it's rarity going down because no one liked it in the first place. So that's why I suggest voting for the box pools, voting is always the way to go in my opinion lol, then listening to the majority vote because I mean...it's the majority opinion lol.

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 4:36 PM

@netherling
Well if we got to vote, that would be selecting creatures that are certainly going to be of higher value. While it won't take the value, I think it is better to leave it up with ALL csps of that purchase value in the box. I'm not going to be entirely accurate, but maybe 2009 have a 10% chance of showing up, while 2015 have a 45% chance or something. (I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to not have the current or past year's CSP there due to low value/eotyr) While it not be the one you want, you are still only paying 500cc for it. If we got to choose what outcome pool we get from it, it'd kinda defeat the purpose. (to me anyways)

I agree with what you say about us high time needing a CSP re-release. And yes, more people want creatures VS CC, because CC is so low in "value" these days. This box idea would also help boost the value of CC - thus helping to also manage the value of creatures at such high value (because cc will be in more demand)

fire-and-spice • 19 February 2020 at 4:40 PM

@prairie I agree!!!

ethereality • 19 February 2020 at 4:46 PM

@prairie I think this is a very good idea

-IF-

It is limited to one per event. Maybe you get 2 or 3 swings at it per year, at 500 cc. Having multiple available just sounds like it could crash the economy if people mass buy boxes and flood the market with the creatures they didn't want.

netherling • 19 February 2020 at 4:49 PM

@prairie
In the 11 years that this site has been around, there have been 383 cash shop creatures released, and excluding even the last two years would only take away 48 monthly cash shop creatures and a handful of LEs from the pool. That's a lot of creatures to leave it purely up to chance without a vote of some kind. So the reason I'd leave it to a vote is to make it something that would really bring people in to participate, because if they know there's a chance to get their dreamy, they'll actually get at it. But to avoid boxes that only give out ultimates, the site would only put in one or two super rares voted on and leave the rest left to chance. Have it do what the vend does, with pools of 4-5 you can get with the purchase of a box

There's also the issue of the trading pool not being added to by these creatures getting released this way, if the people get exactly what they want, there wont be any trading, they'll be solidly in a forever home.

ethereality • 19 February 2020 at 4:56 PM

@netherling

I think they should do it by theme. I'm petty sure the mods and Ian know which creatures are very popular and valuable.

Say Easter 2020 theme would be:
Super Rare - Onny (5%)
Rare - Abrillion (10%)
Uncommon - Greem (15%)
Common - Greentop (25%)
Commonest - last year april csp (45%)

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 5:06 PM

@ethereality
Yeah, I'm thinking there'd be a limit somehow. I don't think 2 or 3 times per year is necessarily enough to get things back into circulation. But maybe if the event only lasted a few days/a week max with 1 box purchase per day, would be the most limitation I'd put.
And again, I think this event would take place 2-3 times per year. I'm thinking mainly on Eggcave's Birthday (July) and Christmas/new year's week.
I certainly don't think people should be able to go absolutely ham and buy an obscene amount of CC to spam buy boxes though.

@netherling
I'm not sure If I'd do them in pools of 4-5 with CSPs, as even if there where super recent ones to "counter" the value of the one rarer one, it'd still tank it a bit to quick I think. Plus, then not all csps would have a chance at being re-released. The box idea is to encourage trading. Not a way to get your dreamy yourself. While the box is offline during the break periods, people will be able to trade the creatures they got from the box that they don't want for ones they do.

thedarkarcher • 19 February 2020 at 5:16 PM

@prairie i really adore this idea i think something needs to happen in order to make things more achievable for everyone. I think putting all into boxes would really help to make the site more competitive but trade worthy. Im not sure about selecting pets though seems a little tough to make it work for mass creatures within the trade centre. If only limited are available in the boxes then it would lead to a mass amount of the lower teir pet in the trade centre meaning most people will most likely sell it for a lower price then 500cc especially if they have many of them to get ride of. This would seriously impact the value of the 500cc.

netherling • 19 February 2020 at 5:22 PM

@ethereality
That would be pretty great honestly, themes would help. Then with creatures that don't have a holiday attachment they can put in a color theme, or theme based off of something similar in their archive entries.

@prairie
I think the real things to go by is supply and demand. Look at the amount of active users on the site and the creatures that they want, then go off of that. Rarity is always going to fall when creatures are introduced back into availability. Worrying too much about rarity is what got the site in this situation in the first place is how I see it lol. So let that take the backseat for once and focus on what the people want to own rather than bragging rights.

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 5:28 PM

@thedarkarcher
Yeah pure CC would go pretty high in value. But being @ian stated that "we are NOT considering re-releasing CSP creatures for a lesser CC amount than when they were first released" that's inevitable unfortunately. It'll be chaos until people settle into the new way.

@netherling
I get where you're coming from but I just don't think going by demand on what people want on their wish list is the best idea. It would give people what they want yes, but trading and such would be a bit outta wack. I'm not really worried about the value of things, more of the encouragement of trading - what this site is mostly based on.

decay • 19 February 2020 at 5:57 PM

@prairie
I like this idea!
I think the Tine rerelease was great but also didn’t keep the original price in mind at all

I was thinking what if there were special CSP’s events that went with the normal events we have like the easter egg hunt but you have to pay 500cc to enter and you get 1 rarer csp if you complete it? That way the creatures are reintroduced at a limited amount so values don’t drop like crazy

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 6:14 PM

@decay
That'd be a neat idea. 😱
Though maybe have that as a option to do after completing the hunt. Because what if you don't complete it due to something popping up (like RL stuff)? Maybe you have the normal Easter egg hunt - then you have a option to buy a special Easter/Spring edition for however much 500cc/200cc - and it has a prize pool of creatures released from april (or just spring theme) in the past years (2009 - 2018)
That kinda puts @ethereality's theme box into play - though not as limited and with a wider prize range.

decay • 19 February 2020 at 6:43 PM

@prairie
Oooo!
Yes! I like that a lot!
I feel like not only would it introduce creatures back but it sounds fun and exciting

Also, there’s no bad outcome because you’re getting something at least worth 200cc

I hope Eggcave puts out something like this!

iia • 19 February 2020 at 9:02 PM

@prairie I think the boxes should have 50% current cc creature and 50% other just to even things out. Then the limit could go up to like... 5 tries. And it would also benefit the future because it would get more current csp into circulation therefor slowing the process of insane rarity in the future. I do agree that eggcave needs to do something!

prairie • 19 February 2020 at 9:30 PM

@iia
I'd disagree on the 50% percent current CSP and 50% other - reason being, this year's 500cc CSPs (2020) will all be purchasable in December again for the yearly re-release. Last years CSPs are only just starting to increase in value, so the last thing we need is more current CSPs. Current CSPs are already in circulation enough - and in trading - people who have older CSPs are searching for older CSPs. Not CSPs form the last 2 years. 😋
The rarity that we need to get a handle on are the older CSPs (in my opinion)

netherling • 20 February 2020 at 2:02 AM

@prairie
That's fair, the trades havent been as active as they should so anything that helps it flourish is ideal. If people get what they want immediately then that's great, but if not then st least they get things to trade with to better help work towards their goals ❤️

kayuubii • 20 February 2020 at 4:41 AM

@netherling
This is a good idea but...... bye bye CC I guess! XD
I love this! Maybe the Biwo dream will come true? O.O

grimwood • 24 February 2020 at 12:36 AM

@prairie

CSP creatures absolutely DO need to be re-released. A very good example of old/beta items reaching insane prices is FlightRising where some items cost upwards of thousands of real life dollars if you were to buy all the gems needed to purchase one of these items. If something isn't done then the Doovoo is well on its way of being a prime example of this. As it stands now, it's near impossible to get someone to even trade you extremely rare CSP's (ie. Diment, Biwo, and so on) for only CC. A lot of new players stand very little to no chance of even getting these creatures which is extremely unfair. FlightRising does in fact have insane prices for their beta and kickstarter items but there are only a small handful of those, whereas here on EggCave, almost 65% of these creatures are extremely hard to get and nearly 20% are downright impossible unless you've been actively collecting old/valuable rares for years.
Dare I say this is the main reason why I'm hardly active on this site anymore. Since it's nearly impossible for me to get 90% of the creatures on my wishlist, why should I bother?
If these boxes were implemented and released monthly alongside the normal CSP critters, it'd definitely boost EggCave's revenue which is a win win for both sides. Yes, people are going to get fussy about rare/valuable creatures being reintroduced but it'd be fair for everyone (especially new players) in the long run.

bunnyshadow • 24 February 2020 at 3:20 AM

@prairie I support this idea, but possibly have the randomized boxes cost at 700CC or more? Considering how regardless of what you get, it's going to be worth way more than 500CC anyway. 😊

han • 1 April 2020 at 7:33 PM

@prairie i really like the ideas that have been brought up in this thread, and i definitely agree that csp creatures need to be rereleased. i've thought of a couple of models, in addition to the "special event" system and "theme box" system that have been proposed, which might be a little simpler (in that they wouldn't require ec to create some kind of special csp event, instead drawing on information they already have about the csps).

by release month
egg cave has been up for 11 years, and to my knowledge they have released 2 csp creatures every month, meaning that there should be ~22 csp creatures released for each month so far. maybe the retired csp box would be available all year-round, but each month, you could only receive one of the csp creatures that had been originally released that month, with older creatures being harder to get than newer creatures.
i think this could be a nice way to 1) gradually re-release all of the csps, instead of having all 388 available at once; 2) give people a better chance of knowing what they will receive to reduce potential disappointment, while still keeping rarities in mind; 3) increase game play, since people would be active every month instead just the months where a big event was happening.

by rarity
the way i understand Ian's disclaimer, retired csps will only be released for 500cc and above -- so, they *could* be released for more than 500cc. maybe csp boxes would be available for a limited period in the year, but there would be different 'tiers' available for different prices based on rarity (as listed in the archives).
ex: rarities #815 - #700: 1000cc; #699 - #450: 800cc; etc. etc. i think a good way to split tiers would be so that each tier has roughly the same number of csps, but i don't have time to figure that out haha.
since rarity isn't completely correlated with popularity (ex: biwos are #440 vs. parlocks are #799), you wouldn't be guaranteed a more popular creature by paying more. this seems like a good way to ensure that rarer creatures are fairly brought into circulation + again, make sure that people have a better sense of which creatures they could receive. this might also be a better way of encouraging people to purchase cc.

i'd definitely be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on these two models!

cheetah • 21 April 2020 at 2:26 AM

@snowball888111
I love both of those ideas. The monthly idea is a perfect way to make the beginning of the month even more exciting. As for the by-rarity model, maybe it could be available for a limited time (like a single week) during a month which otherwise doesn't have any holidays already going on, like June or August (unless I'm forgetting some holiday lol forgive me I was on hiatus a while).

To make things even more interesting, one or two completely new creatures could be added as bonus prizes (you'd get a retired creature like usual PLUS the bonus creature) for the monthly box, with that being the only way to obtain them. If it were divided into 500cc and 200cc boxes, a different creature should probably be exclusive to both, to avoid getting something (technically) worth 200cc from a 500cc box. Since the boxes don't retire, just change month-to-month, the creature(s) exclusive to the monthly box would be "available" year-round (though extremely rare). Alternatively (or even in addition to the previous), each month could have a different bonus creature that returns for the duration of that month every year. As long as they are rewarded as bonuses, not in place of an expected retired creature, I see no downside to this.

I'm also in favor of limits, to avoid anyone going wild and buying fifty at once. Maybe a maximum of two 500cc and five 200cc a month (main account only, no multiaccounting, yadda yadda)?