Do away with adding 200EC to Cove expansion

calenlass • 6 July 2022 at 12:37 AM

The idea of this game is to collect creatures. With that vision, it is kind of ridiculous to have that 200EC addition every time we expand our Cove. Can we please do away with that?

sparklefox • 6 July 2022 at 6:20 AM

@calenlass - I've been wishing for this for quite a long time now. If you wanted to collect all 900+ creatures on this site, you'd have to pay a ridiculously large amount of EC to accommodate them.

If the expansion cost must stay, please just make it a fixed amount of EC instead. Maybe the initial cove size could be increased too? Considering the amount of creatures that have been added over the years since it was set to 300.

allydogfog • 6 July 2022 at 9:55 AM

I agree!! If you want to add even a few cove spaces it might cost a lot (and i don’t make a lot of EC per day) so it might actually be harder to get more spaces than creaturws for me. luckily, i got rid of some so now i’m not living on the edge

wonder404exe • 6 July 2022 at 10:23 AM

Adding EC might encourage people to Feed and be active more... maybe consider lowering the number down... about 50 EC per upgrade...? It might be nicer for the people who are collecting but don't have much EC to spare...

ida92 • 6 July 2022 at 1:02 PM

@calenlass I have created a similar topic here: https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/76180?page=2

I agree that with each expansion it gets more and more expensive to the point that the prices just get ridiculous...

allydogfog • 8 July 2022 at 7:17 PM

@ida92 I took a look at your topic-

I actually really like @/dragrawr's solution to this- same price, but adds slots in sets of five

Obviously prices can get SUPER high BUT- if we lowered the price down a lot it would mess w the economy
I think if we added 5 slots it would make it easier but not so much easier that it would mess too much ? I mean its also kind of tedious to click and click to expand your cove spaces one by one

heatherm19 • 8 July 2022 at 9:45 PM

So much support. I like the different suggestions, whether a flat fee each space or the fee only going up every x-number of spaces... I'd really like it if we could 'bulk buy' as well, as @allydogfog mentions clicking over and over to add one space at a time gets really tedious (and on slow internet connections can take forever!). Maybe even a discount for buying spaces in bulk?

Whatever the solution, I definitely think *something* should change with this. I've seen some of the larger coves where players actually put in their profile how much they've spent on cove spaces and how much the next cove space will cost... There really is a point where the constant increase every space makes it almost impossible to expand anymore.

ida92 • 9 July 2022 at 2:59 AM

@heatherm19 Also, there a users who went on hiatus because they just couldn't afford to get cove spaces any more.. That's not the point of the game, in my opinion. I think the point is to make it possible for users to collect as many creatures as possible, not to make it impossible for them. Not everyone has the time and will to feed coves all day just to be able to buy a few extra spaces each month.

twilightshine • 3 August 2022 at 1:10 AM

Bump bumping this up cause this is IMPORTANT.

I think the bulk buy would work well too! Maybe +200ec per every say, 50 spots would cut down on cost and also help with the problem. Right now, I don't want to buy any expansions unless it's absolutely necessary, because I honestly don't want to sit there clicking again and again and again...zzz...where was I....

The scary thing about the feature of the expansion costing too much/being too tedious is that it's actually scaring users away from collecting creatures, which is 100% not the point of the game.

alraune3 • 3 August 2022 at 4:26 AM

Suggestion:
What about a combination of Click Exchange and Cove Expansion? The Click Exchange has been suffering from players' disregard for a long time. Maybe that would be a way to make the Click Exchange interesting again? Such as: One Cove Expansion for X (yet to be determined) clicks in the Click Exchange?

Just my 2 cents... 😊

autumnal • 3 August 2022 at 11:11 AM

As many people were saying in Ida's thread about this same topic, decreasing the amount of EC required to expand coves would deflate the value of EC such that it would be even more difficult for free players to acquire CC than it already is. It is tempting to want to make cove expansions cheaper, but I think we really need to think about what would result from that. This site heavily skews towards older players. Newer players are already at such a disadvantage with getting the creatures that we want, and I think this change would make it even worse.

I'm really looking forward to being able to earn CC through the site, and hopefully it'll make the economy more balanced and fair for all. If it does, then maybe I would be supportive of this idea.

greengrassoftunnel • 3 August 2022 at 11:36 AM

@autumnal I agree. At least the way it is now, new and free players can earn EC to trade with older players who have creatures that they want. If cove expansions become cheaper, why would older players ever want EC? Thus, this site would be incredibly pay to collect, and it already is that way. It would get even worse ☹️

heatherm19 • 3 August 2022 at 2:01 PM

I'm not sure I see how a suggestion like this would be so horrible for EC values. Cove expansions are not the only thing bought with EC, and not everyone even uses EC to expand their cove at all (I see some players here for 2+ years with less than 200 creatures). EC is needed for auctions, for some of the games, and for all of the shops. I'm not convinced that making *one* use of EC less expensive would negate it's value overall.

I do like the exchange tie-in @alraune3 mentioned, that could be a 'two birds one stone' situation where the click exchange is enlivened and the cove expansions made more accessible at the same time.

For interest's sake, I took a look at my Floof side's stats. I have bought 155 'extra' spaces on that account, for a whooping total of 2,418,000 EC. My next space will cost 31,200 EC. Regardless of EC 'value' and anything like that, how are those numbers supposed to be sustainable to the average user? I'm on here a lot and can get 500k or more each day from feeding, but I doubt most users have the ability to do that constantly. Whatever the solution, *something* needs to change here.

chapus • 6 September 2022 at 11:04 PM

I think honestly instead of reducing the price as it would indeed sink the value of EC, why not give a site-wide cove increase? This has been done before since with time, 4-5 new creatures a month adds up very quickly... and it's been a looong time since we got a site-wide free expansion of coves.

I 100% agree that it gets tedious, both in time and money, to expand coves. Pretty much all of my EC goes into that now, and I think it's due time for Egg Cave to increase the standard size of coves...

heatherm19 • 7 September 2022 at 1:03 AM

I like the idea of a site-wide increase to the 'standard' cove size, but that doesn't really help with the issues this suggestion would. Only users already under the standard cove size, or just a little bit over, would really benefit from that (unless the increase was really substantial, like up to 500 or something, I have no idea what the increases have been in the past). Users with accounts well past any realistic side-wide increase would still have the exact same issue of the constant price increase making cove expansion nearly impossible, and therefore making playing the game rather impossible. What's the fun sticking around if you can't get new monthlies every month because it's too ridiculously expensive to buy a single space?

I honestly don't understand why making cove expansion more accessible to more people would somehow cause ec to crash in value. There are plenty of other things ec is needed for. But I'm sure there is some way to make cove expansion more accessible without messing with ec value too much, some of the suggestions in this thread (like discounts for bulk-buying, or increasing the price every certain-number of spaces, etc) are pretty tame and I really can't see it tanking ec by itself. (Now, the issue of ec being not as wanted and harder to use on trades is a whole other issue and I acknowledge ec value is pretty skewed, but not because of cove expansion.)

snowywinter • 7 September 2022 at 1:54 PM

SOMETHING HAS to be done. We're at nearly 1000 creatures now, buying new cove spaces can be daunting when at least 4 new creatures are introduced per month.

Instead of the amount of EC being adjusted, what if they added at least one free cove space per every two creatures introduced? (Personally I'd like to see 1 space per new creature.)
Not everyone is going to want every creature, and not everyone is going to want huge coves. Hoarding is a personal decision. And not every creature is going to be easy to obtain.
To be fair to the site I factored in that we have have up to three sides. So 982 creatures / 4 = 245.5 spots needed to have one of each creature...
but that doesn't account for having one in each stage, or one of each gender (soon to be more than just two options.) ...and aside from going through all of the creatures again, I don't know how to do the math on how many total stages there are - to have one of each creature in each stage - to know how many cove spaces that would be. (Obviously not all have four stages.)
But even giving two spots for each species = 491 spaces needed per cove.

That being said, going forward, I'd like to see ALL coves given an extra 200 spaces free.
or
Maybe it could be an incentive. Have to have been a member for a year to receive the bundle.
or - If you can log in daily for 6 months, a year?
- AND maybe 10 5 free spots earned for every 30 days of continually logging in?

---

I've been giving it a lot of thought... and it definitely gets complicated with the EC issue when trying to fix the problem going the route of adjusting the EC. Some people would feel jaded for sure after spending BILLIONS of EC.
Still, I think as I have from the beginning that it should be and always should have been a flat fee of 5000 EC per space (topping out after starting at the 200). But that is just a personal opinion, not factoring in the economy and other things.

Not ignoring that ida started a thread... but things seemed... intense in that one.

mr-blue-bones • 7 September 2022 at 2:10 PM

I love alraune3's idea of using the click exchange to increase cove space!

snowywinter • 7 September 2022 at 3:22 PM

@mr-blue-bones I probably would still just put up with paying full price for the cove expansions. I don't use the click exchange as I'd be afraid that people would think I wanted the rest of my cove fed. I knew a lot of people that used the CE when I first joined and they said it was a great way to get your whole cove fed - not so great for people with feed only lists.
- Or I'd have put my Ookull in there by now.

But hey... I'm open for just about any avenue to free cove expansions being available on the site.
(And not just 1 - 3 spaces total for a few short days per year - that the specific days aren't even listed on the Blog, that people have to post/look in the forums when they are available.) So if that's what players wanted, more power to them if EC team chose that option.

Meteoroid • 7 September 2022 at 4:52 PM

I do very much agree that, with nearing 1,000 creatures on the website, it may be time to reconsider the default Cove Space for users. Or at the very least, implement more cost-effective measures for future expansions. There are some very interesting solutions offered in this thread, so thank you to all for your input so far.

I can't say much beyond my own personal opinions, but I have brought up this concern for review.

jirachiwishmaker • 7 September 2022 at 10:20 PM

I would like to see improvements on both the click exchange and the cove expansion as they are important in keeping a cove especially a huge one.

heatherm19 • 8 September 2022 at 1:50 AM

@Meteoroid I just want to say thanks for responding to this thread, I'm continually impressed/amazed at how communicative the staff is with the users around here, it's so wonderful to see staff actually acknowledging user's input.

Ian • 8 September 2022 at 4:09 PM

@heatherm19 @calenlass

I think that dropping the EC requirement completely to upgrade Coves would be disastrous for EC values. It's important to have certain site features continue to require EC. This is a core feature of the game. It takes time to acquire your favorite creatures and expand your Cove to house them.

It is very true that hundreds of creatures have been added to the site since the default Cove size was determined. Great point and this needs to be looked at.

What I'm considering: increase the default Cove spaces by 50 or 100 for all accounts. How does this benefit existing players? This would reduce the EC burden (the cost to upgrade) by -100 Cove spaces. You only pay for spaces beyond 300 spaces right now. If the default Cove space becomes 400, your new upgrade cost would be calculated only beyond 400 spaces. This would essentially be a discount for all users who want to continue to upgrade.

Finally, on a yearly basis, I think the default Cove spaces should be expanded since we add, at minimum, 48 new creatures per year (more with events).

What do you all think?

heatherm19 • 8 September 2022 at 5:04 PM

@Ian
I completely understand not wanting to drop the ec requirement completely, but I do want to emphasize again that expanding the 'default cove space' is really only a bandaid for a problem that will continue to be an issue. Expand to 400, so the cost of expansion is only calculated beyond that point... Okay, but that doesn't do anything to change how prohibitively expensive cove expansions can get, period.

For example, on my 2nd side I currently have 527 cove spaces, which means an 'extra' 227 spaces, which have cost me a total of 5,175,600 EC. If only the default cove spaces are increased, that doesn't change the fact that adding 227 spaces will cost that much ec. The cost will stay exactly the same, and be exactly as prohibitive and frustrating, as it is right now. The only difference will be that it might take longer for users to actually *get* to that point, since they'll have more 'free' spaces.

I think long-term when it comes to this sort of thing, and I completely agree that increasing the default cove spaces would do a lot to help at this point. And an annual increase would be even more beneficial. But players with 'hoards' and already-large coves will still eventually struggle to be able to afford a single cove space more, that issue won't go away.

I'd like to know if, in your opinion, a change like 'increase in price every 5 creatures' would be so disastrous for EC values. If there is any change that *could* be made to the prices/increases itself, without screwing with values too much.

snowywinter • 8 September 2022 at 8:40 PM

@Ian

I think the solutions you propose sound fair enough.

That the discount would be applied to future cove expansions by those already exceeding the proposed cove expansions (TBD).

And to have more cove spaces earnable through more events would help. Though I REALLY wish it wasn't tied to things like ALSO getting cove-wide clicks/views/feeds like it is in December. That was fraught with a HUGE amount of stress for me, any way it was sliced. (Having to move a HUGE amount of creatures around, SPEND a LOT of money on freezes right away, OR miss out on the free cove space. In the end, I chose missing out.)
I think it would be more fair just to do an annual audit and hand them out - possibly similar to the free CC; where players have to be here to accept them when it is - if you want some sort of limit to it.

o.O ...would there be any way to integrate having them catchable like in the Cave, Oasis, Asteroide, etc?

I still stand by my idea that they'd make a nice log-in bonus. Even if it is just one space (less than I originally stated) per 30 day log-in.

heatherm19 • 8 September 2022 at 9:51 PM

I've heard about getting spaces through events but as I'm still sorta new I've never experienced it yet, I'm not sure how exactly that works but it would be awesome to have that more often.

Depending on how much a yearly default-increase would be, how many spaces, I guess that plus getting spaces through events could help a fair amount. I do like the idea of having a bonus for log-in, we already get ec for consistent log-ins so it does seem like something that's possible. I'd even say go one space per 2-month log-in streak, if that would make it more reasonable.

minnie298a • 8 September 2022 at 10:46 PM

@heatherm19
In the past I know the Advent Calendar which runs all through December occasionally gives out Cove Spaces. But as mentioned above it can also give out feeds, clicks and views which can evolve creatures. Seasonal creatures, items, activity resets and ec are also part of the prize pool, with each player receiving the same things. https://eggcave.com/forums/topic/75946 That lists last years prizes.




As for the original topic. I'm in two minds.

For me the original cap was a great way to enforce me keeping my cove manageable. I've been around a long time, well before the XC and Leaf (I was even around for the introduction of Tim's). Even now, my current cap has me more willing to let go of the creatures I have doubles of because I'm looking at over 126k per slot.

In saying that, as long as the increase in free slots doesn't auto jump what I need to pay, I won't object. Free is free, and it will allow me to keep collecting with out having to rush to off load the excess.


Added extra trivia: In my search to see if Tim's was an original feature I saw a blog about how we were now allowed 100 creatures (no more), and that trading would soon be available. Put into perspective how the site has grown to accommodate things. https://eggcave.com/blog/iramae-are-here?page=1

heatherm19 • 8 September 2022 at 11:09 PM

@minnie298a Oh wow, I've been delving into the blog archives just to learn more about the game but I never went back that far!
"Put into perspective how the site has grown to accommodate things." I completely understand what you are saying, but it could also be seen the opposite way: In over a decade the game has only allowed 200 more 'default' spots before you have to pay for them. It is interesting that there apparently didn't used to be a way to expand your cove at all, and you could only ever have 100? That's interesting info.
(Hmm, the post mentions a 'magic and medicine shop', wonder what that was referring to? I love learning about the history of EggCave!)

minnie298a • 9 September 2022 at 2:15 AM

@heatherm19
The old blogs can give an interesting insight into the development of the site, especially those old days. That increase to 100 was before you could abandon/adopt or trade your creatures. The only way to get rid of a creature you no longer desired was to let it die.

Those 200 slots as opposed to the amount of creatures released may seem disproportionate, but it is still the site keeping up with community wishes. There is a way to get more. Plus Ian has stated it's something that needs to once again be assess.

I've been a member of several other pet adoption sites, where there is little to no growth like this. One site had about 120 creature available and you could have 3. Then 4 if you paid real money. Now about 15 years later I think its 4 free, or 5 if you pay for premium yearly with real money (with a couple more added to the availability).

The way this community can put in suggestion that at least seem to be listened to is on of the reasons I've hung around so long.

heatherm19 • 9 September 2022 at 2:44 AM

@minnie298a
The only other pet-adoption type game I've played is really one of the reasons I'm continually impressed with Eggcave. The communication between staff and users, staff admitting when something goes wrong (like the macbot/doovoo release) and being open to suggestions and actually acknowledging suggestions, it's all just like the polar opposite of the other game I've played.

(I didn't mean to sound annoyed/upset in my earlier posts, just trying to put ideas out there to help the game. This is the *only* online game I've ever spent real money on and I never thought I ever would do that, so Eggcave has definitely already won my heart! 😊 )

Ian • 9 September 2022 at 3:47 PM

@heatherm19 @snowywinter

Announcement here! https://eggcave.com/blog/the-default-cove-size-is-now-500?page=0

I understand that this isn't a permanent solution (the cost of upgrading will continue to add up as more species are added to collect), but I'm looking for an immediate relief sort of solution right now. This was the most obvious thing to do up front, since it has been so long since the default Cove space has been upped.