Improving the VEND & questing experience!

in Site Feedback & Ideas

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 2:00 PM

I've seen several people complaining about the current, frustrating questing system too, so I'm opening this topic in hope @Ian will consider improving it enough to make questing a bit more fun & rewarding for the users. 😊

So, what we have right now it's this: you spend lots of time & effort to feed to make ECs, so you can stalk the shop, buy the items and give them in to NPCs for questing purposes and to get tokens you can spend in the VEND machine. In the VEND you have to spend lots of tokens (usually 50 each for four categories) to get one RANDOM try in a pool of four creatures. The four creatures in a pool might be spread like this: super rare, rare, not so rare, not so rare. Of course, you then spend your hard-earned tokens, enough for one try... and you get that one creature you didn't want at all because you have seven of them alredy.

In short... you work hard to get something, but you could get a big disappointment in the end, after spending so much time (the most precious currency of the whole world) on it. Give me a break, real life is hard enough working like that, at least in a game it should be more fun, at least in my opinion! xD

Now, If you played an old RPG, you know how quests work. You do your job, and you get a promised reward. I think it's terrible in VEND it's all so random, when one try is so pricey in terms of tokens (and in terms of effort and time spent on questing), considering gathering items for questing is no walk in the park: sometimes you don't find the item, or you find it highly overpriced in shops... that makes people so desperate they spam other users' walls asking "you got that item???" that "you got that other item???" this. And, of course, if you don't help them out because, you know, you're trying to save for questing too, you're oh so rude!

So my suggestion is to either un-randomize the VEND machines - either by letting the users choose what they want and spending their tokens on, at the same price we have now in tokens. OR, If it has to be random, to AT LEAST lower the tokens price (25 per category would be reasonable per attempt) and the cooldown after rejecting a quest (10-20min instead of one hour). A good friend of mine, @megamisama90, suggested also it would be a good idea make shops restock faster.

@galaxyleopard suggested also it could be nice to make the travel-related quests similar to Miserable Meltdowns (with one item asked only). Since many travels are pricey (20k+) it does seem appropriate! I'd add it could be nice to have randomized quest for all, like, sometimes you get asked 2 items, sometimes 1... it would make things a bit easier when you have one item but the other one is nowhere to be found!

@raccoon didn't agree with these changes, but suggested very interesting features to make questing more fun without the need of making things too much easy. More item-rewarding games and activities around the site could make gathering items for quest better, and more frequent restocking in shops would give everyone a chance to find the needed items without having to browse through overpriced items in user shops. They also agree on a more balanced spread in the VEND creatures' pool.

Like the idea? Ping in your friend and feel free to write down your opinion! 😊

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kayuubii • 13 December 2019 at 2:20 PM

@wererage
I just got to the forums and was going to make this exact topic complaining about the same thing! Yes, Ive been slowly stopping questing after thinking about it, I’m using all this EC, what’s the chance of me getting my Tawny or Foo? What’s the point if I’m going to end up with something like a Canige or a Vitta?
This is a great idea!
Also, maybe you should add to the main post, the Travel one is really hard as it asks for 2 travels, I think only one item should be requested per quest, It makes everything a lot more stressful searching around and only having one of the items!

Great idea! xxxx

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mechanicalheart • 13 December 2019 at 2:35 PM

@wererage I agree with this as well. I've probably done under 10 quests since they came out, I've tried to start doing them countless times because some of the creatures I'd really like to get, but it's just not fun and 90 percent of the time I'll end up finding one of the items needed (If I'm lucky) and I'll overpay for it, happy I found it only to find out I can't find the second item and no longer need the first when I fail. And then there's everything you stated as well, I just don't find it enjoyable and would honestly rather buy the creatures from other people than risk disappointing myself with something I didn't want. I don't think I'll be doing very many quests unless they become a bit easier, of course I love a bit of a challenge but the quests are a little too much.

Thanks for making this topic. ^^

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megamisama90 • 13 December 2019 at 2:35 PM

I like the idea! I'd like if nothing else have less tokens used for trying and one hour is so long time to wait for next attempt to get tokens.

Sorry for the pings if you don't want to be pinged.
@anzica @yts @eschla @iia @valorie100

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 2:36 PM

@galaxyleopard
Thank you for the support! Hope to hear more feedback about it soon. 😊
And your idea is quite nice... I will add it to my first post! Tbh, I find Arkimedes quest difficult as well, while "Miserable Meltdowns" is more easy since it does require just one item... maybe asking one item only would be a good idea as well, or at least randomize (sometimes two items, sometimes one).

@megamisama90
Thank you very much for the support (& the pings)!
Hope to see some nice improvements made to the questing system soon, too... c':

@mechanicalheart
And thank you for the feedback! ❤️ I am sorry you're finding it quite tedious as well. I really hope we will be heard!

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iia • 13 December 2019 at 2:41 PM

In a way it's a good idea but I would say, yes, it is more frustrating but if it was easier everybody would do it(quest). If everybody did it they would almost always pick the one with the most value (to sell it). And if it cost less there would be a lot more. When there are more the general value goes down. I do think that randomizing AND outrageous coins needed are a little bit of an overload so I think that eggcave should just make it cheaper.

@wererage I totally see your point and I really agree that it would be easier!

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 2:45 PM

@iia
Mmh, this is a good point! What about different tokens prices in a not-randomized system, for different creatures, according to their rarity? For example, a foo could cost 50+ tokens in each of the four required categories, and a vitta just 25 tokens for each category. Or something like this. 😊

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prairie • 13 December 2019 at 2:48 PM

@wererage
I get your point, but I don't think allowing users to pick their prize will work.
Reason being they have these VEND prize pools to re-introduce older/rarer creatures back into the market, but not lowering the popularity/rarity too much.
If we allowed people to pick their own prize, Foos for example would almost immediately reach the limit of how many can be re-introduced (most would likely be bought in mass by those who stock up on tokens), and thus the prize pool would be closed. While it would still let Foos come back into trade more, many users who don't have more wanted creatures/CC would have a issue of getting one still.
Also, VEND creatures are any of those available in the Cave. This includes creatures such as.... the Tine. Which is by far one of the most valuable creatures on the game. So letting users pick their prize would be a issue in that case when/if it happens.
I am OK about the token number going down, just as someone who doesn't have a ton of tokens unless I grind, but at the same time, I disagree - also for reasons above. But I would like to see pools with more recent creatures cost less.

So I guess in conclusion, I'm perfectly fine with how the VEND is set up right now.

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 3:06 PM

@prairie
I do get your point, and I kinda agree... but I also find, for example, absurd that the tine or other older creatures are worth so much. To tell you frankly... it's a slap in poverty's face. And this is a game. A game. And I think in a game it would be more important to give users a chance and fun time, or you're just bringing into something meant to be fun the struggles of real life, that usually a person tries to escape in a game. All this economy system, values and stuff... it's so frustrating, ad complex, and users get so caugh in it they forget to have fun... trading is not fun... it's a struggle. I think it's wrong.

From what I've seen, in this game people get easily frustrated, beg and try to trick other players because the rarity system is so messed up it's impossible to get what you want even If you work hard for it. We definitely need re-releases to slowly make things a bit easier, at least in my opinion... that's the point. As to quote a friend of mine, "we need more emphaty for all", not to force people to be able to obtain something just by giving up something else they worked hard for too. 😊

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raccoon • 13 December 2019 at 3:51 PM

@wererage

I like the randomness of the VEND, since it keeps rarer creatures rarer while still making them available. Though I do think that the tokens required need to be modified and perhaps the rarity of the different creatures needs to be closer.

I don't support picking what prize you get, since people would obviously just pick the one that's most popular. (In this case, the foo.) and dramatically increase the population and decrease the 'value' too much. I also don't support individual prices for individual prizes. (Vitta for 25 tokens, Foo for 50, etc.) Since again, people would flood the market with whatever is most valuable.

I DO however support more frequent restocks (Thus bringing down user shop prices. One of the items I needed wasn't in shops after a few hours of refreshing on restocks and the only one in user shops was over 300k ec), better grouping for prizes (Come on, vittas go for 200-300k ec, and foos go for 6k cc. They should definitely not have that big of a gap between prize 'value' in one group. The canige and bliz are fine, imo, since they actually go for cc.) and possibly modified token costs. (Nothing TOO dramatic, it should definitely still be a challenge to rack up enough tokens.)

Token cost and prize pool 'value' absolutely need to be taken into consideration. A group with prizes valued around the vitta should absolutely take less than one containing a foo. And these groups need to be picked with those values in mind.

A game with a player economy can work, and even thrive, but at our current point in time... eggcave's economy isn't too great. I think a big thing to change it all would be more ways to get items. Have a random daily item freebie (set the rarities to be the different 'tiers', so something 99+ is extremely rare to get from it.) Have daily puzzles reward random items. Have something like the 'mystery creature/egg' on site trivia but for items, and have said item be the prize. Give us item galleries (not the ones on creatures of used items), so people have more of a reason to collect, hoard, buy, and sell items.

Our issue here isn't really the quests or tokens. It's the lack of availability of the items required for it. Our economy needs a kickstart.

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 3:57 PM

@raccoon
You do make interesting points, and I respect your points of view.. 😊 I do admit If finding items were easier (more frequent restocks, or more games in which you can win / obtain an item) and the creature pools balanced in a more appropriate way (es, foos, tawny, leyma, lovart), the randomness would be fair and more bearable. I do agree also on the necessity of having more item related activities... been on many virtual pet sites and... well, they do have games. Guess the number (like the sandrodoon walls) or mining / fishing games, for example, or even games in which one could win adoptables (luck and skill based).

Still, I think it wouldn't hurt to also have a trading system and values that aren't so stressed out that trading istelf is becoming annoying, while it was supposed to be fun. I guess I'd prefer a more relaxed and laid back economy and system, especially considering not everyone can afford CC or do have the time for costanly questing... this is just a personal opinion tho. x)

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raccoon • 13 December 2019 at 4:03 PM

@wererage

I can definitely see where you're coming from too. I absolutely agree something needs to change.

I do also think a LOT of creatures are waaay too inflated, but they should also keep some of their rarity. It's really not a simple situation.

Thanks for the board and a place to have a discussion. 😊

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 4:06 PM

@raccoon
Thank you for your input! It's amazing how people with different points of view, by clashing like this, can get even more point of views. I definitely didn't think about the possibility of adding more item-related activities... I'll add it to my first post. ❤️

And yes, haha, some creature's values are... just absurd. Like tines and macbots and stuff... and eveon more absurd is that this broken economy is allowed to continue. You simply can't ask a person to spend so much for a single bunch of pixels... we're not made of money. XD

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foxbit • 13 December 2019 at 5:14 PM

@wererage I agree with the points everyone has discussed above.
Maybe lower the tokens required for a certain creature pool...maybe stock up more of the items in the official shops (or reduce the waiting time between restocks)...maybe prize pools with creatures of similar value...
Some of the prices in the user shops are a bit crazy. I mean, one food item I needed for a quest was selling for 20K EC in one shop, but in another shop in 1M. One. Million. Egg Coins. Seriously?
(though I think it's just that Hamilton hates me and asks for the most expensive items on purpose, haha 😋).

Deleted • 13 December 2019 at 5:22 PM

@foxbit
Haha, yeah, I thought Arkimedes hated me too! But nope, it's just users trying to get advantage of people who do quest... and that's reasonable, but their prices are definitely not reasonable most of times. I get they want to get a little income, but... it's a bit too much sometimes. x) Thank you very much for your feedback! 😊

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arcana • 13 December 2019 at 6:02 PM

@wererage
I agree that the questing stuff has a lot of small issues, but if they change the pools to actually be around the same value, I'm fine with it. It's a lot, lot cheaper than buying them from other players outright.

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decay • 13 December 2019 at 6:27 PM

@wererage i’m not sure if anyone has suggested this yet but i’m a little too lazy to read them rn xD

Anyway, I think that the vend machine should have rarities or tiers.

Tier 1: Super rare creatures that require a lot a lot of work but you’re guaranteed something 5kcc+


Tier 2: Rare creature that require work but not pain staking something worth 500cc+

Tier 3: Uncommon creatures that don’t require a lot of work but some work

I think the problem is having to work hard for a chance to get something good and ending up with something that’s worth like 100cc
Also, the range of value, for the current system, is crazy like Vitta is worth like at most 100c usually waayyy less, Canige like 300cc maybe less, and then Foo like 7kcc. That’s a crazy gap and it kinda pushes me away from trying and spending my time on vending.

Also, at first I thought just having one category of tokens was enough to try the vending machine which could be a cool system if the amount of tokens required was lessened and the chance of getting that super rare creature was low like .5% or something small like that. It wouldn’t mess with values too badly and would be fun because you could get other cool creatures without spending so much effort feeling like it was meaningless.

Deleted • 14 December 2019 at 5:34 AM

@dcmaster
There, I totally agree with that you've written on here. 😊
I think the biggest problem at ll is that you work hard for tokens, and, in the end, you can end up with one (or multiple) failed attempts, a huge disappointment that makes the whole thing just frustrating. If we had prize pools spread in a more fair way, at least one could find the questing system rewarding... and even If they do get a creature they didn't want, they could trade the one they got for another one in that pool since they'd be a similar rarity. I doubt anyone would trade a foo for a vitta, after all. .-.

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beta • 14 December 2019 at 8:09 AM

@wererage I feel like questing is like the thief shop, but with you actually getting a creature every time. I dont see too many people that get frustrated with the thief shop, even though its literally the same thing, just with ec rather than tokens... in the end it really averages to the same amount of ec (500k for ts egg, 500k for vend machine)

Deleted • 14 December 2019 at 9:22 AM

@wererage I personally hate the Speed Reading, mainly because I never know which How to Train Your XX I have in my possession. And buying out the Library doesn't work.. it's costs a ton of EC and frustration when you have 10 of this and 0 of that. I don't mind how quests are now, just hope that there can be a catalog of items in the shops. Like you have X amount in your strongroom already, (DON'T BUY ANYMORE FRENCH LOAVES, or eggs or Cigar Galaxy M82 or etc..)

You have 3,358 unique items in your Strongroom, with their quantities totaling 10,974. You can store an unlimited amount of items here.

See here, I stack up on random items, it's useful at times a pain at others, when I deplete my stock of it. So, if the Shops could helpfully add in how many of each item I already possess, I don't have to buy it again!

On the other hand, I kinda agree with a non-randomizing Vend Machine.
Suggestion 1: Allow us to spend tokens on a select creature, one user may only buy 2. Similar to the Chocolate Extravanganza (one cave monthlies bought with choco boxes) , we can only get that limited amount per user.

Suggestion 2: Refund, please. Like instead of taking all 240 to 200 tokens, give us back at least half! Like those e-wallet apps, shake the Vend Machine and get some tokens back!!! It's so saddening to watch the numbers go down.. from 88 Miserable Meltdown tokens to 38. Wow, what a huge jump in numbers! Then, I'll have to spend the next 3-7 days slowly collecting it up again. ☹️ 😊

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caylith • 16 December 2019 at 6:16 AM

I second most of that @wererage wrote down. It is unbearable, if you painfully gather the tokens just for 1 single try. Months sometimes (if you are a working person with a family and hobbies) and that is what is happening with me. I want Tawny. Just this little one pet. Just for me. And I bet that if I try - I'll get something I do not need, and nobody want to trade for the Tawny. Sorry, but the randomness system in the VEND is unfair, with the given token price for the pets.
I would suggest - we need lower amount of the tokens if there is a randomnes like 1:4. And keep the token amount as it is if the pet you want is the pet you get from the VENT.

The other thing is the prices that the users are requiring for the items/travels. 1M EC? 100.000k EC for the single one item?! The need for profit is understandable but be reasonable. NOONE will pay more than ca. 20k for 1 thing (because of the crazy amount of tokens and thus items, and so on, the circle closes) so what is the reason for the prices?
I have a suggestion in this, I thing fair. Set a minimum price and a maximum price for the items/travels. A minimum (say, the shop price x2) and maximum (not bigger than 20k). This way the items will be possible to buy for us even if "the jokers" imediatelly set 20k.
With this comes the idea of a more frequent restocks... and it think it would fix the problem once and for all.

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 6:38 AM

I am glad to see this topic is getting lots of attention and feedback. I really hope we all will be heard. 😊

@stevepat2002
You make a good point, but recall the thief shop is, yes, luck based, but you don't have to gather tokens or do anything else than click on a mystery egg and purchase it. If the VEND was like it - four random, obscured creatures and you can click one for a price in ECs, so you wouldn't know which you're picking, people wouldn't complain about that as well because they wouldn't be required to quest for hours, days and months to gather an absurd amount of tokens for one random try. c':

@playermocha345
Thank you very much for your input! I do also hate how the strongroom is so messy. I never know which items I alredy bought and hoarded in here and which not, so I end buying up the same things... I think a little mark to show If you have (in your inventory or strongroom) that item alredy would be a nice feature, and also we'd need a better way to sort things in there. 😊

@caylith
And that's was what I was talking about - many people don't have the time to quest, and even If so the amount of time and effort required to quest and gather tokens is plain absurd. To make an example, I used to just focus on feeding, since I'm a regular EC user that can't afford CC. I used to make 1mil per day, putting a lot of effort into it because it's the only way I can collect rarer CSP creatures too. Now that I'm trying to quest for a foo, I barely can make 300-500k... barely. Because the effort asked in ECs and time is stressing me out and it's frustrating to have to wait so much just because you have to reject a quest because either the item cannot be found (not out fault) or their prices in the user shops are ridiculous.
A price cap for items would be a good thing, in my opinions, and would prevent scams too (like users putting travels for high prices, claiming to new users they're valuable and retired and so on), and of course, more frequent restocks would be loved by everyone for sure. ❤️
Thanks a lot for passing by and posting!

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 6:52 AM

@caylith @wererage

Yes. Yes! A little feature in the Shops showing how many of that particular item we already have would be nice, really nice.

Additionally, an actually Vending Machine has prices that vary, for example a 100 plus, Coca Cola, Sundrop and a Milo drink. Some cost more and some cost less. You definitely wouldn't pay extra to get a Coca Cola if Sundrop is your favorite drink now, would you? Same pricing, but some are 1.5L bottles while others are 500L bottles. The Vend Machine should have a price tag to if, the requirements can be the same but as caylith said, tokens are deducted according to the creature received.

Lovely Dragons - 200 tokens deducted if you get a Nogar, maybe 150 for the Torget, Rix and Yverosa for 100 tokens.

Oh hey, don't know if anyone else noticed (most likely yes) but they took off the 4 items limit that you can buy within 5 seconds. 😊

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caylith • 16 December 2019 at 6:58 AM

@playermocha345 that kind of feature exists already in the Strongroom😊 In the upper right side you set "Show Highest Q-ty" and it shows you how many of what you have. The Shop has the same one.

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 6:59 AM

@playermocha345
I'm not familiar with vending machines, to be honest, but yep, I do know things in there have usually different prices. I also think nobody would use a vending machine where everything has the same price and you get a random snack, IRL, unless you have lots of time and money to waste. xD And haha... didn't knotice, but I doubt I'd be fast enough to buy 4 items in 5 seconds, esp with that annoying haggle feature... can't I buy the item its original price clicking one button without having to haggle? The most you can haggle is 5-6 ECs anyways... c':

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 7:09 AM

@caylith Oh no, I'm not talking about the Strongroom or the User Shops but the Item Shops, General Food Store and Travel Agency. It would be lovely to see the same feature in the Item Shops too.

@wererage oh, I click as many as I want, then use the Ctrl+W function to close and type in the price quickly. However, tbh this is still a pain, I kinda like the way the User Shops are set up. The Item Shops need a lot of time to buy out the Shop..

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 7:52 AM

@caylith
I meant more like... to show in your strongrooms advanced categories, like "show only toys, show only books, show only travels, show only trinkets" kind of thing. 😊

@playermocha345
I like it too, but I think for just 5-6ECs the haggle feature it's... a bit a pain. If you could haggle for, like, 100-200ECs it would be best (not with items that cost 70-200ECs, of course) or at least have two buttons, one to go to the haggle screen and one to "instantly buy" the item for that price, without haggling. I'd also be happier without all these overlays you need to click to close and stuff... makes one lose time...

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lexicon • 16 December 2019 at 10:40 AM

@wererage
Eyo just poppin' in 😊. Not much more to add, just showing support❤️-

I agree that something needs to change! I didn't care too much for the current prize pools so I was just doing quests casually, every now and then, building up my tokens. Then the Foo comes out of course and I immediately tried...only to get......a Vitta ☹️. Super frustrating because I felt like I spent more than it costs essentially with time and EC!

I get why randomizing is important (value, rarity, blah blah blah) but definitely pairing it up with similar-valued creatures would've been better, more satisfying, and less aggravating. The amount of time and money I spent was just not worth a Vitta and I was definitely upset. I also have so much anxiety about trying again. Which, you know, it's a game! It's supposed to be fun!

I was just about to make @playermocha345's point about the stores telling us how many items we already have, that would be tremendously helpful! I would also like to sort in the strongroom by "travels", "toys", etc. Faster restock times and buying it outright would make the process 10x faster I feel like

@raccoon's idea about more item-rewarding games is also excellent and lessens the burden of spending thousands of EC on restocking. Maybe if we recieved 2x items back when we give 2x items that might help as well--and have them be randomized items not just from the specific quest we completed? Just an idea, I like the variety 😊

I also agree with shorter cool-down times because if I don't have the item, it's not currently stocked in store, and is overpriced in user shops, (or they ask for the PKS travel which is ~100k EC), I just have to quit. Even halving it would help but I like the 10-20 minute suggestion!

Excellent ideas you guys, love the discussion 😊

Deleted • 16 December 2019 at 10:51 AM

@kimichanx3
Thank you very much for stopping by, and for the support! ❤️
I find brilliant the idea of receiving 2 items instead of one, too! I mean, usually in RPGs and stuff when you do a quest the reward is usually better than what you brought to complete the quest (well, that's the point of a quest), while the current quest you can spend a lot (many items, even in shops, are very pricey, like 10k+), and get back a token and a 400ECs worth random item... not very cool, questmaster, haha. xD Receiving a reward of equal or a bit great value of what you spent to complete the quest feels also like a good idea...

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lexicon • 16 December 2019 at 10:55 AM

@wererage
It seems only fair! The give to receive ratio with questing is very off! In both the quests and the reward, unfortunately/:

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