The Official Species Rerelease Discussion

okami • 29 July 2015 at 3:39 PM

@dawnfur

This is a discussion board, you can't get irritated that not everyone agrees and has counterpoints. And if we're making comparisons to children now, then we look moreso like children who want every toy in the toystore and fully expect to get just that.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 3:39 PM

Call me what you want, but I stand behind what Eggcave said,

I can't possibly make a better argument than "The site itself has said this will not happen."

Edit:

@bluewolf That seems to be the common thing now. Someone makes a sound-argument and everyone who disagrees gets agitated.

Further Edit:

Well, not everyone. xD

iceiceice • 29 July 2015 at 3:40 PM

I enjoy the discussion, or argument, or whatever it turned into now. It's interesting and we can see both sides of the issue.

I'm not even mad at the people who are against the rerelease because, I admit, they bring up very good and valid points.

We may have strayed a little off topic, but eh.

rosaline_kaye • 29 July 2015 at 3:41 PM

Quoted from @ami_utsukushii 's profile page;

"RANT WARNING:I am a firm supporter of re-releases because:

Older creatures are hard to come by for new users, it's pretty much impossible. And its not just new users, it's users who have been here for any amount of time and missed opportunities. Older users with rare coves aren't going to trade their creatures for anything less than $100, and in some cases its only one creature for around that price. Some like to complain about how "The creature will lose its rarity!", "I worked hard for this cove so a re-release isn't fair!", and etc. But here's a thing to think about: NOT MANY USERS ARE AS LUCKY AS YOU. And what I mean is that they might not have the money or creatures to do a trade to get what they want. If you want a creature that's older and retired, people want around 7000-9000 CC for them. Who has that kind of money to just use up on one creature? Please process what you're asking them for. I think happiness is better than rarity. Sooner or later its going to get to the point that no one's going to be trading around a certain creature and people who dream of owning one will lose their chance. I've seen people FLIP OUT over the thought of a re-release. Stop being selfish. Just because creatures become available again doesn't mean their rarity will plummet, if its done in small amounts. Think of other people. I've seen so many people quit because they can't get creatures they want due to selfishness, rudeness, and so many other things. I even quit for a year because of it. I want there to be a vote over whether to re-release creatures or not, see what the majority opinion is. And after that we discuss how it should be done or why it shouldn't. Maybe we can come to a peaceful agreement and make the whole site happy again ❤️ 😊"

First off, I'm not trying to sound selfish. I'm sorry if I sound that way. I assure you, I'm not.

Secondly. most things aren't impossible, alright? Put time and effort into it. Plus, chances come and go, just like @despair said. You can't always get what you want. older creatures aren't supposed to be easy to get.

I am not "flipping out". I'm trying to defend my stance.

EDIT: Once again. Just because you can't get a creature that you "REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT", doesn't mean you should demand a re-release so you can get it without any work at all.

immortalraven • 29 July 2015 at 3:46 PM

Actually a Doovoo egg is impossible to get plus some other critters probably too in lower stages xD There are only two known Doovoo eggs which those users said aren't UFT at all

despair • 29 July 2015 at 3:49 PM

I'm willing to sacrifice that I can't get a few creature I want as long as it means Eggcave sticks to it's word.

dawnfur • 29 July 2015 at 3:53 PM

@bluewolf Is it really a toy store if there aren't any toys for sale?

I'm not saying that because I'm irritated, I'm saying it because that's how it seems.

netherling • 29 July 2015 at 3:55 PM

@immortalraven is right xD they're never going to be obtainable unless who owns them ever trades them away.

@rosaline_kaye
Yeah, we cant always get what we want. But when there's a chance to people are going to want to take it. No one "demanded" a re-release, Ian wanted to see what opinions were on the topic. I think is an awesome idea but you and some others dont. Everyone has a different opinion.

Honestly, look at what's being argued over. Giving people hope or keeping some creatures insanely hard to obtain.

yam • 29 July 2015 at 3:55 PM

I think a rerelease, if done in a controlled, limited way, would be beneficial for the players and for the site.

Those of you talking about the worth of the creatures decreasing, well, that would be a problem if there was some economy on this site that was fragile. But from what I've seen, there isn't much of an economy at all, no currency that needs to be stable, etc. A rerelease wouldn't make any creatures lose more worth than they started with, and to be honest some of them really need to lose some worth. The point of this site isn't exclusivity. The point is for players to enjoy collecting. Which isn't happening now, since some creatures are literally not obtainable anymore.

Look at any other successful adoptable site. They usually don't let anything so essential to the game play get this impossible.

Those of you talking about "use effort!" don't see both sides of the story. There is a lot of PRIVILEGE that goes into this "Effort": privilege of having found the site early, of being able to spend tens of thousands of CC, etc. In the real world, think of this as a rich family against giving to the poor because they "should work for what to get".

People should think about "what harm will this bring to me and others, what help would this bring to me and others, and which one outweighs?" Those of you who think that because of something decreasing in value A BIT (if the demand is still there, it'll still be very high value RELATIVE TO OTHER THINGS) we shouldn't rerelease, are ignoring how much happiness this will bring to other people on the site.

Seriously, if someone against this has a legitimate point based on well thought out argumentation instead of just your own feelings, please ping me and discuss. I have yet to hear a legitimate argument for the other side.

okami • 29 July 2015 at 3:59 PM

@dawnfur

So you're saying that all the creatures available now and all the ones you have now aren't anything at all? It's possible to trade up towards goals. I started off like everyone else with no knowledge of trading or values. But I learned, and I traded for some of my goals. Yeah, it takes time and effort, but that's the point.

Like it's been said many times, the site should uphold their word about past creatures being retired forever. Yeah, there will be many creatures that people can't get. But that's worth keeping the sites credibility. It's also not like more great creatures aren't to come. It's like life, nobody can have everything, but chances will come that you can grab.

metaphor • 29 July 2015 at 3:59 PM

@despair

"I'm betting that the reason most people even want certain creatures in the first place is just because they're considered "rare.""

Sorry, but here is where I have to disagree with you. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when people join the site, chances are they are going to want to see what Eggcave has to offer. So they might explore the archives or other people's coves. If they are a cat person, they may fall in love with something like the Paroxy or Clocat. If they like dragons, Ahjoon or Flar might be more appealing. Most people don't know how rare a creature is until they start playing awhile. I know I didn't, and I joined pretty early, when Eggcave was still "green" and there were fewer creatures. I saw the Tine and wanted one because it was cute, not because it was rare. What I traded my Tine for then probably wouldn't get me 1k CC today.


So while rarity may come into play for some people, most just want a creature because it's their favorite animal or it's cute or looks like their pet or whatever. I never plan on owning a Doovoo, for instance, because I don't like it.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:01 PM

@yam

I do understand where you guys are coming from, but other sites that do this have always done it. It wasn't something that just popped in 6 years later. And they especially never said "This will never be available again!" Because of this re-releasing stuff couldn't have possibly changed anything, It was always that way.

I do, however, believe you aren't seeing it from our point of view. You're saying that standing behing the website's word isn't a legitimate argument? That's, lie, the definition of legitimate.

yam • 29 July 2015 at 4:02 PM

@metaphor

I must say I really agree with you. And, even if most people want "Rare" creatures for the status, I think that shouldn't be the direction the site takes. Yes it may be the status quo, but that doesn't mean it's right. The point of this site, once again, is to ADOPT CREATURES YOU LIKE and take care of them and such. Not exclusivity and showing off and being better than someone because "LOOK I HAVE RARER CREATURES"

@despair

ok i guess i wasn't specific enough, I do understand the point of keeping the website's word. however, that's the ONLY point on the other side that I understand as legitimate. And, I (personally) don't believe that OUTWEIGHS the benefits of rereleasing, especially since 6 years ago they couldn't have known the site will get this popular, with this many new players. Things do change.

I do understand that some people value credibility and word a lot. Its just that this was never in contract, publicly promised consistently, etc. In fact, after the first rerelease, that "Word" has already been broken, and it shows that it can be.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:05 PM

@metaphor

Not everyone, but I have seen my fair share of people that want them for the status of being rare, like what @yam said. Some people do want creatures because they look cool/cute, but certainly not everyone.

In the future, if Eggcave changes it's slogan about retiring creatures, re-releases in moderation would probably work out just fine.

netherling • 29 July 2015 at 4:09 PM

@bluewolf @despair

So what I keep seeing you say is "egg cave need to keep it's word". So you're telling me you've always kept your word on something? Always? Sometimes change is a good thing. And @metaphor is right, there are creatures we've fallen in love with for the look, or for what they are. @yam has a point too, several actually. The economy of egg cave isn't fragile. And if a creature loses some worth, it's not the end of the world. And with some creatures it needs to happen. A few of the creatures that are older are in old, forgotten about accounts. They're not going anywhere. And if they're re-released then that gives people a chance of getting something they've wanted for a long time. If the rarity drops, think about it, is that some horrible awful thing?

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:12 PM

@ami_utsukushii

I'm not close to perfect in any way, so yes I have broken my word. This is in a different sense altogether, however. Just because I have in the past doesn't mean it isn't wrong to break your word. Eggcave said they wouldn't re-release stuff and people have payed alot of CC for these "exclusive" creatures. They should just stick to that.

webkinzer • 29 July 2015 at 4:13 PM

So re-releasing creatures may not be a good thing. But it can be in some ways. Think about creatures that used to be in the cave quite some time ago. They never used to be worth any CC at all, now they might be worth quite a bit. To some their prices might even be inconceivable, some may think not. It all depends on where your standpoint is. Say you might be new, and find a creature you like, and it would make your day just to own it. Then you try to get it, and it is basically unavailable to you until you've built up more bulk to trade with, and nobody knows for sure how long that'd take. Or, say you might be a senior citizen of Egg Cave, and you've got a pretty valuable cove, and you only have some ways to go until you've achieved that cove you've always dreamed of. Of course, you're not going to trade away any of the good creatures in that cove you've worked so hard for. Maybe you might, only to get the better creatures you're seeking. Anyways, I really agree that we should re-release SOME creatures. Who's to say we have to release CC creatures? I understand people paid their own money to get said creatures, and I respect that. If they stay retired forever, so be it. But creatures that were in the cave a long time ago, NOT in the Cash Shop, that are now worth ridiculous amounts of CC? They were once free in the Cave for some time, now worth the price of an entire grocery shopping that could feed an entire 3-person family? And think about paying somewhere around that price for every extremely-valuable creature you desire! That's unreasonable. My mother would cringe at such prices, only for a virtual pet. That's like buying a Tamagotchi for $150. Would you do that? Me, certainly not. For a more reasonable price, yes, in fact I would buy it. My laptop cost less than what a Tine is worth now. If you think about that, that's bad. So, if we just released past retired Cave creatures, would that be so bad? I mean, Egg Cave isn't ALL about getting more rare and better creatures, although it is some. It's about raising creatures, and making friends, and things like that. Not spending every last dime you have to get that one creature you've always wanted. Do you get what I'm saying here?

I agree with what @yam, @dawnfur, and @metaphor are saying, they seem very reasonable to me.

I hear all this about "Egg Cave keeping it's word". Is that necessarily a good thing? Sometimes things should change for the better. I really agree with what @ami_utsukushii has said about this as well.

okami • 29 July 2015 at 4:13 PM

@ami_utsukushii

Yes, I always keep my word. Because I know better than to give my word on something that I know might not happen or that I couldn't keep. I don't give my word then, I just try my best. Eggcave said that past creatures wouldn't be rereleased. And it's different because this is also a business for the people who created the site. Businesses can't just lie and manipulate things like this. If they start to change it now, that's great and perfectly fine, but don't go back on your word about previous creatures

This kind of stuff is just frustrating, because it basically tells people "hey, it's okay to go back on your word" and "if you demand things enough, then they'll be handed right to you". It also would tell people that anything that is promised on this site doesn't have any credibility.

yam • 29 July 2015 at 4:16 PM

@bluewolf

could you show me where eggcave PROMISED that publically, and whether this was before or after the first rerelease?

This is about more than accountability and lessons. It's about the site's enjoyability and success. Think about 10 years down the road. So many creatures will be unobtainable then. Think about a newly joined person who learns that half the things on the site are not for them to use. How sucky is that?

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:17 PM

@bluewolf

Not to mention that, in essence, peope are wanting Eggcave to go back on what it has said for years.

This "never re-releasing" thing is sort of starting to sound like some sort of marketing tactic. Get it all hyped out to secure more purchases and then re-release later to get more sales to a different audience.

dawnfur • 29 July 2015 at 4:17 PM

@yam

I actually think Ian said it wouldn't happen again after the rerelease
because everyone threw a tantrum

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:18 PM

@yam

Quoted from http://eggcave.com/cashshop ;

"These are [month's] Cash Shop Monthlies! They are available through the end of[month] and, after that, will be retired forever. Get yours now!"

retired. forever.

I think EggCave should stick to their word on that, imo.

There are several more examples. The saddest part is that this is for the creatures in the CSP RIGHT NOW.

yam • 29 July 2015 at 4:19 PM

@dawnfur

ok. Well i will admit i wasn't there for that so i don't know the details of what happened and what people were mad about. Was it about the concept of a rerelease in general or because too many cash shop creatures were being rereleased with no real need?

Idk, i kind of think that if we can reach a compromise between both sides, like not rerelease everything and not in huge quantities, not a lot of people will be mad.


@Despair.

Ok. I see where you're coming from. I still don't agree, but I understand your side. However, what if the site compromised and didn't release CSP creatures and only cave creatures? Again, I personally don't want that, but would you be ok with that or still no? I'm just trying to understand the argument here.

okami • 29 July 2015 at 4:20 PM

@yam

Only every month when creatures are advertised to be "gone forever." So unless forever means a couple of years, that it the sites word.

And people can still perfectly enjoy the site without having every creature they possibly want. And newbies now will have rare creatures in a couple of year, and the newbies at that time will have creatures that are rare later on and so on. They can trade upwards like we all have. Yes, some things will always be unobtainable, but that's just life.

iceiceice • 29 July 2015 at 4:21 PM

@yam
Some people are against it because it goes against EggCave words about it being retired.

Other people are against it because of value changes or how it's a handout and we should work to get our creature.

It varies.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 4:21 PM

The best part is that they send out emails further stressing how exclusive these creatures are going to be.

okami • 29 July 2015 at 4:23 PM

@despair

Even right now in the upperhand right corner. "Monthlies last call" xD So either they mean that for real or "monthlies last call until they're rereleased again"

yam • 29 July 2015 at 4:23 PM

@bluewolf

I would disagree with your "that's just life" argument. What part of life is and SHOULD BE virtually unobtainable for newly born generations? and even if it currently is, since I understand that with the wealth gap a lot of things are, SHOULD IT BE THAT WAY?


Once again, I do understand the keeping your word argument. I really do. There's no need to argue that it's a good thing to do. However, that's not the only thing in consideration. Whichever side ends up happening, things will be sacrificed and people will be unhappy. What one should consider is how to make the MOST NUMBER of people happy, and what's best for the future of the site.

dawnfur • 29 July 2015 at 4:25 PM

@yam

The creatures that were rereleased were originally from the cave, and were gotten from the cave during the rerelease.

The most general complaint I saw was they paid money and now they have "no value"

And then some also about it being retired.

okami • 29 July 2015 at 4:25 PM

@yam

If people want things, they can work towards them. This site has done very well for 6 years now with retiring creatures and making new ones, and if it ain't broke don't fix it.