The Official Species Rerelease Discussion

Ian • 29 July 2015 at 8:12 AM

Hello!

Over the last several weeks, I've been reading more and more topics on Egg Cave about potential species rereleases and I've been seeing growing support for it. I thought that I would open an official discussion here, where players can share their suggestions for a fair and reasonable way for us to rerelease certain Egg Cave species. If you happen to disagree with the idea of species being rereleased, you're also welcome to present your argument here too.

Since the Christmas rerelease fiasco of 2011, this idea has never been seriously reconsidered. But with 4 more years of creatures on the site (many of them monthlies), now only ~25% of Egg Cave's entire species base is physically obtainable by creature creation. The rest are not obtainable other than by what somebody is willing to trade or auction for. Creatures were never meant to become extinct altogether or worth values of unobtainable amounts of EC or CC.

To be clear, Cash Shop creatures and Cave creatures are being thought of as "separate" here. In other words, we are NOT considering rereleasing CSP creatures for a lesser CC amount than when they were first released.

We're envisioning rereleases being some type of special day or site feature. What do you think it could be? Species, of course, would only be released in limited "batches" for small windows of time.

Instead of us surprising the community with another Christmas 2011 incident, we thought we'd allow Egg Cave's best minds to come together with an agreeable solution that's non-threatening to the economy, while injecting some rarer species into the mix.

Post away!

scorch_cloud222 • 29 July 2015 at 8:25 AM

Oh my gosh, yes!

I've seen a number of people propose some pretty brilliant ideas for it, but I'll let them post here so I don't get the details wrong. Just stopping by to say that re-releases have my total support!

Ian • 29 July 2015 at 8:25 AM

@scorch_cloud222

Awesome. 😊 So glad to hear that you're in support.

By the way, if you have posted your suggestion in another topic, feel free to re-post it again here in the official discussion.

Deleted • 29 July 2015 at 8:58 AM

You should consider these:
Macbot
Onny
Doovoo
Gobbler
Tine

... speaking of which hardly one is traded every 2-3 months.

ushafuse • 29 July 2015 at 9:02 AM

@Ian

Yes, that's incredibly great if it really happens!

Of course, some special creatures should be re-released on EC's b-day. And maybe some not so special ones for the other events (Christmas, Halloween..). And like the CRW, maybe there should be one for the re-releasing thing too.

And some real Onnys should be disturbuted during April Fools', please. 😃

Deleted • 29 July 2015 at 9:10 AM

@ushafuse
http://eggcave.com/archives/view/gobbler

I think you mean something else perhaps?

--
PS: Clicking the Gobblers aren't "real" Gobblers

ushafuse • 29 July 2015 at 9:19 AM

@wizard Oopsies, I'm wrong. Last year (i think), the top 50 finders will receive 100,000 EC plus a 500 CaveCash Voucher. Sorry for saying wrongly 😋

metaphor • 29 July 2015 at 9:23 AM

I'm happy to see that this is being revisited and that you are including the community in the decision. I really appreciate such openness!

Anyway, I don't have any really mind-blowing suggestions, but I have always thought that maybe there could be a place in the cash shop where every month or so an old CC creature is for sale for either more than or equal to what it was worth the first time it was released. That way, the market won't be flooded with the same creature all at once but will still give people plenty of time to get the creature they never got a chance at.

I'm still trying to think of a good way to re-release cave LEs to make it fair for everyone, but I'll post if I think of something.

mastergemma • 29 July 2015 at 9:26 AM

@metaphor
Would there be a limit to the amount of the creature that you would be able to purchase? E.g. limited to one or maybe 3 per account?

Ian • 29 July 2015 at 9:42 AM

@mastergemma

Specifically for Cash Shop creatures? I wasn't thinking there would be a limit for those (in terms of an account cap). But I was thinking that they'd only re-appear in the CSP for a small, limited time once per year.

yileen • 29 July 2015 at 9:52 AM

I really like the idea.

I think a limit would be nice, ex. a special week where you can get 1 random extinct creature a day.

As for the CSP I have no idea's.

Ian • 29 July 2015 at 9:59 AM

@yileen

Nice. Noted that suggestion. Similar to Creature Release Week, in your mind, yes?

metaphor • 29 July 2015 at 10:00 AM

@mastergemma

I actually didn't have a limit in mind, tbh. I think that if you have the CC and you want to pay that extra for two creatures, then it should be fine. But that's just me. 😊

fakeworld • 29 July 2015 at 10:01 AM

I wasn't to fond of this idea at first, and it wasn't due to selfishness or anything of that nature, I just thought it would kind of take away the specialness of owning such a rare creature. I have to say that I would definitely support the idea of re-releases now, I just truly hope it's done correctly and unerringly. I know how fustrating it is to not own a creature in which you've been trying to obtain for nearly ever, but can't due to little or no circulation of that species.

What about a quest! A quest can be hosted for a period of time, and when completed, users could purchase from a range from 1-3 rereleased creatures that was selected to be available upon completetion. Lol I think it'll be fun, or nah? I'd love a nice challenge. 😊

jirachiwishmaker • 29 July 2015 at 10:36 AM

Oh yay! I was hoping really for the rerelease of any of the older LEs and CRWs from the past. And no nothing should become ever completely extinct either.

lykhaos117 • 29 July 2015 at 10:55 AM

I support the idea of rereleases and like many of the above ideas, though I think there should be some sort of time limit before a creature gets rereleased so that users will still have a chance to trade creatures once they gain some value.

For example, if the Meganox were to get rereleased in the future, then there should be at least two years or some other time gap so that they wouldn't flood the market while they weren't that difficult to obtain from users who still had some and were willing to trade.

I also think that rereleases would be good for a joining anniversary prize. On the anniversary of the day someone joined, maybe they could choose between a few retired creatures and/or get a 💵 voucher or could get one of any creature they want or something like that. This would allow users to get the creatures they want the most and give people an incentive to stay on Egg Cave longer.

dawnfur • 29 July 2015 at 10:57 AM

I'm still for it.

I may have been the only person not complaining about the 2011 one.. lol

Foo/Roo/Florn's are so hard to get, that it was nice getting a chance, without y'know, paying thousands of cc for it. (which i couldn't even get at the time.) The main arguement was "it'll mess with the values" but as you can see, they are still ridiculous. o_o

I personally like @fakeworld's idea. That way people can't just go into the cave and take what they want. This way, they'd really be working for what they want and I think there would be less people cheating.

Plus, I always love the events. Like the Valentine's Day one we had. I'm always on way more when those take place and I think others are too. 😋

metaphor • 29 July 2015 at 12:23 PM

@dawnfur

I certainly didn't complain. I traded in my Florn for a Foo and was ecstatic. haha.

spiritkoi • 29 July 2015 at 12:43 PM

I agree with dawnfur, fakeworld's idea sounds really good.

iceiceice • 29 July 2015 at 1:02 PM

/CELEBRATES/ THANK YOU FOR REVISITING THIS IDEA. ;u; I'm so happy.

Now to gather my thoughts and think of a plan.

All I really want right now is a chance to get the creature. I don't expect handouts. I really just want the trade center to be more active. It doesn't seem to be doing much, in my opinion, because a "particular species" isn't available anymore.

@lykhaos117
I like the anniversary idea (however, I'm not sure how to start it now...)! And the time gaps make sense.

@fakeworld
A quest sounds really fun! Like a little game in EggCave (aside from the racing and guessing stuff). I think a lot of people would enjoy this.

But firstly, are the retired LEs only to be released in the caves (or obtainable by chance) and the retired CC are obtainable through payment like they were previously (+💵: like CRW) ?


There's so many good ideas, I'm not even sure where to start.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 1:07 PM

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the idea of creature re-releases. Usually I'm bashed left and right when I voice my opinion on the matter, but nowadays I couldn't possibly care any less what other people think.

For one thing, I like the thrill and challenge of trying to obtain some of the harder-to-get creatures. People usually just accuse me of being "selflish" or whatever, but I honestly believe that this is one of the things that make Eggcave so exciting.

Another thing wuld be the slogan Eggcave uses when creatures are released and about to retire. Somehing along the lines of "Hurry Up! Last chance to get this creature before it retires forever!" Now, please correct me if I'm wrong and they no longer use this, but I'm certain they have at least used it in the past. I know these words were used before the time where creature re-releases were being discussed seriously, but even so it seems kind of...wrong. I don't know how many times I've used money I didn't really have with the mindset of "Ok, well this is going to be my last chance! I need to just go ahead and..." My point is, there's a few creatures I wouldn't have purchased with such haste if I knew it was just going to be re-released someday. I honestly think Eggcave should stick to its word and not re-release creatures. (tl;dr Eggcave has stated that this creature will no longer be available, they should stick to that.)

That being said, I feel that future creatures released that do not use this slogan would be fair-game for being subject to a re-release, even though I still do not like the idea.

Finally, I believe that Eggcave has defined itself as a game where each creature has a value. This may not have been intentional, but it happened. Not that this is a bad thing. I just feel that re-releasing stuff would completely redefine not only creature values individually, but what we consider "values" in the first place. The values of the creatures now are determined by the users. If one creature is re-released, it's only a matter of time before the other creatures are re-released. This could give people the mindest of "Instead of trading, I'll just wait until the creatures I want are re-released!" (If that makes any sense, wording this paragraph was somewhat difficult.) I just feel like that's a big change to bring....a huge gamble. (Again, sorry if this paragraph doesn't make sense. xD It was hard to word and I'm getting sleepy now.)


Let me also go ahead and add that I am not trying to be "selfish" or "self-centered", so if you have a different opinion do not obliterate me/ end my existence for expressing mine thnx.

rosaline_kaye • 29 July 2015 at 2:07 PM

I completely agree with despair.

The creatures that you will re-release will completely destroy their value, and people will be hesitant to trade when they know that the critter they want will be re-released.

Getting rare critters is an achievement for me. I feel excited and lucky to finally have a hard to get critter. If this thing decides to re-release the Tine, Shaibun, etc., then getting those difficult critters won't be much of an achievement.

I'm sorry if I sound selfish, I assure you I'm not trying to. I just really dislike this idea. This idea makes me feel like the EggCave economy is going to collapse.

(sorry if my sentences sound awkward, i'm having trouble coming up what to say)

Orderedchaos • 29 July 2015 at 2:12 PM

I have a question to those who say re-releases will destroy a creature's value.

Has the Oasis destroyed the value of endangered creatures like the Drakomo, Aerlo, ect.?

I ask as someone who does not trade often and thus does not know what people value these creatures and wish to know if the implementation of the Oasis "destroyed" the value of these creatures.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 2:15 PM

The Oasis has lowered the value of those creatures, I'd say.

The only reason the change isn't as noticeable would be due to the fact that they were available for such a long time.

There's a far greater number of them. You could find them in the cave for a couple of years.

raccoon • 29 July 2015 at 2:19 PM

@despair
I can understand where you're coming from, and I don't think you're selfish. Though I have to disagree on whether or not some creatures should be re-released.
/stares longingly at foo, florn, and raskoon

I really like @lykhaos117 's idea. A special account "birthday" prize. Though I feel some people would abuse it with side accounts?

All in all, I'm for creature re-releases, as long as it isn't basically a handout of tons of incredibly rare creatures. There needs to be something to limit it. Maybe for Christmas you can wish for one creature and get it as a Christmas gift?

metaphor • 29 July 2015 at 2:24 PM

@rosaline_kaye I forgot to ping @despair too sorry.

I don't want to start any controversy, but if you don't mind, I'm going to counter your point about "destroying values." Please note that I am not making any personal attacks, and you are as entitled to your views as I am mine. I just want to put something into perspective, is all.

There are 420 creatures that have been released on Egg Cave so far. As Ian mentions in first post, ~25% of those creatures are currently available to users right now. The site has been growing fairly consistently. With a greater flow of users, demand for certain creatures rises, while the supply continues to shrink. Now, say, the Onny is re-released in the Cash Shop for around 2000 CC or so (just a random number, not saying I think this is what the Onny should go for). I don't know the exact number of users who buy CC, but say in the month Onnies are reintroduced, 100 news Onnies are adopted (might be higher or lower, again, just playing with numbers here). I imagine that many of those Onnies will not be traded; let's say 50 of them. Fifty others are put on the market.

Now, at first, while the supply is high, yes, value will decrease. That is to be expected. A certain demand has been met for the time being. But then let's say we retire the Onny for another three years or so. Let's also imagine that the site continues to grow at its current rate, with lasting users with similar wishlists. In those three years, many of those Onnies once on the market will have most likely found permanent homes. But the Onny's demand begins to rise more and more as new users pour in. By now, the supply is most likely not as abundant, but the demand is still there--resulting in the Onny again going up in value. Will you ever again have to trade 10000 CC, a tine, and who knows what else for one? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what people are willing to pay. But if the degree of value shifts over time for the sake of the site's growth, I think that's fine. In all honesty, I don't think that it's realistic to withhold, what, 75% of all existing creatures from current users indefinitely. It's not even really an issue of fairness but of practicality. Yeah, new creatures will come out again and again, but those too will retire, and the cycle will continue.


Handled with care, the economy will take care of itself. It's an organic force that is controlled not only by the site's owners, but also by the users based on their wants and their current met demands. The goal is not to saturate the market with sought-after creatures but to create a balance where demand can still be met with a sustainable supply.

I hope this makes sense.

rosaline_kaye • 29 July 2015 at 2:26 PM

Quoted from http://eggcave.com/cashshop ;

"These are [month's] Cash Shop Monthlies! They are available through the end of[month] and, after that, will be retired forever. Get yours now!"

retired. forever.

I think EggCave should stick to their word on that, imo.

despair • 29 July 2015 at 2:28 PM

@bluewolf

Yes. I love your wording. Especially the first paragraph. I hate to use these words because I love Eggcave to death, but if they just started re-releasing stuff it'd be almost like false advertisement.

Again, I really really really hate to use those words.


And yup, future creatures should have that slogan if a re-release is possible.

iceiceice • 29 July 2015 at 2:36 PM

@Orderedchaos
Oasis did lower value, as I noticed. However, as someone who traded a Drakomo for the "lower value," I didn't mind,. People still sought them out.
At this point, I'm not very concerned with the numbers anymore.

A lot of people seem concern with the economy, but I'm sure it stabilizes itself, even though it may be shaky in at first.
~*~
The amount of creature are continuing to grow while the retired CC creatire supply has becoming less and less (since less are in circulation). I really think rerelease have to happen at some point.

However, I can understand your concerns and everyone made valid points. I hope that we can come to a consensus.
~*~
Not only this, but I think there is a big gap between "oldies" and "newbies."

dawnfur • 29 July 2015 at 2:38 PM

Okay, a challenge. I have no problem with that. Harder to get creatures aren't a challenge, though. They're next to immposible. Nearly every person who has one won't trade, and some people even keep them after they quit.

There's not much more I want than a Tine. I actually FINALLY found someone willing to trade, and they wanted 15k cc.

Do you know how much real money that is? About $150, I know, because i bought it. And *still* didn't get it.

I'm not saying Onnies and Tine's should be given out for free every single day in the cave, I'm just saying that it's not a "challenge" anymore.

Nobody should have to pay thousands of cc for a creature that was $5 or free.. o_e