Update With CaveCash Gifting

mairbear • 22 April 2013 at 10:55 AM

@frosted

Yupp, but that just means that EC will finally be regaining its value again 😊 I mean atm the ratio is like 10-14k EC for 1CC which is absolutely ridiculous. I remember there was a time when you could get 250CC for 1,000,000 EC.

Removing the CC gifting function doesn't make CC creatures harder to obtain. If anything, they are easier to obtain now since the lowest amount of CC you can trade is 100CC (gender change) and nobody's gonna pay 1m for a gender change when they could buy an eggcave monthly instead (depending on price of cave monthlies though)

What this would essentially do is:

1) increase the value of EC
2) decrease the value of CC
3) eliminate trading tiny amounts of CC, which bolsters CC value

In the long run, I feel like these changes will help stabilize the economy. Inflation is not sustainable XD

boxofcrayons • 22 April 2013 at 10:56 AM

@frosted Then you trade those monthlies with someone else, or several someone elses. You keep going until you find someone who wants what you have for their gobbler. I was able to obtain my ecorth, two nyms (one of which I later traded), a balrog, an olimpt and a goldox before CC gifting.

I think the reason they haven't implemented CC in the trading center is because of legality issues. Also I think that that would sort of impair the 'free' nature of eggcave.

neko-chan • 22 April 2013 at 10:57 AM

@frosted

Lol I know?xD

Oh and I can trade my rie for 4-5 CSP's of may, june and july if you'd like to trade your CC that way 😸

Deleted • 22 April 2013 at 10:59 AM

@boxofcrayons
Did you buy CC?
If yes, then please dont get in a conflict with me, but actually those who buy CC, have the longer end of the rope, while the rest are getting the shorter end.

@mairbear
Cave monthlies would be worth less than CSP monthlies. There would be an inflation in the price of CSPs, as people who cannot obtain it, and really want it would be able to do anything for it and so. The EC monthlies arent really gonna be enough for it. It seems like I bought CC just to be running out and a decreased value.

I'll be stalking and lurking around EC, and would see whether whose opinion comes in effect.

jirachiwishmaker • 22 April 2013 at 11:00 AM

In order for CC users to have great benefits in supporting the site they should have a membership plan that can go monthly, or yearly. They can get perks like creature badges for having certain creatures in their cove that are CSP, the badges will be displayed on their profile. They can also be able to purchase retired CSP pets, or retired travels. And for their profiles it would show that they're a CSP member.

To gain more ec double feeds should be increased as well as having ways to obtain more ec through games. If there were more games available on the site that would be fun for all you can win not only ec, but some nice creatures that are LEs even older LEs as prizes for games would be awesome. New users could easily acquire LEs through games and their cove worth would be a bit more as they have LEs in their cove that can be traded too.

A marketplace should be available where everyone can post their eggs and creatures and they can get only ec through buying, that way you don't need to have junk eggs just the ec wanted. More items for pets like having a pet house and you can decorate it, and have pet toys. Another fun option for pets is battling. You can win ec through pet battles. There will be badges for a certain amount of pet battles won.

Deleted • 22 April 2013 at 11:02 AM

@neko-chan
I would love to trade with you then.. So I'll write on my profile that I owe you the CSPs? And you just mention which you like, and we'd trade it? xD

boxofcrayons • 22 April 2013 at 11:03 AM

@frosted Yes, I've had cc in the past, and will likely get it again, but I go very long periods in between. I am not trying to argue with you, I just want you to see that this truly is best for eggcave.

Deleted • 22 April 2013 at 11:05 AM

@boxofcrayons
I'm also not arguing. But I really think that the gifting CC feature should be removed, and CC implemented into the TC, that prevents all scams of any kind

neko-chan • 22 April 2013 at 11:07 AM

@frosted yesh 😸

mairbear • 22 April 2013 at 11:08 AM

@frosted

They might not be equal value BUT it makes it so there's something to spend large amounts of EC on. Atm, the only things you can buy are Tims and travels, which is why there's an overflow of EC in the markets. Which is why it's so worthless. Once there's something to spend EC on, EC will become a hotter commodity 😊

CSP would deflate as EC monthlies become harder to get. I mean, let's be honest... where I'm sitting now I could probably buy more CSP monthlies than EC monthlies atm ^^'' Same with you I assume unless you also have like 1 billion EC XD

Of course I'm basing this on EC monthlies being worth at least 1m ... if they were like callas and only worth 100k, then yeah, probably CSP would inflate.

Really the most important thing is what price they introduce these cave monthlies at ;o

Deleted • 22 April 2013 at 11:12 AM

@mairbear
Eh. I just have 2mil EC. Among which 1mil are for Tims in my storage(s) -_-

@neko-chan
4 CSPs sound okay? xD [I guess this is becoming a trading thread]

april__ • 22 April 2013 at 11:33 AM

Overall, I support this.

It was getting aggravating seeing people demand CC for creatures that should sell for EC or other creatures.

Not to mention having to pay mass amount of CC to buy new cave LEs. The valentine LEs going for so much CC was ridiculous.

I do wish there was some warning. I do like to gift my friends CC, but I guess I can gift monthlies instead. ^^

xxshadowclawxx • 22 April 2013 at 11:38 AM

interesting changes although I can't present my prize for the contest XP

it is good and bad

good now people can get into the game and not worry about this "CC economy" EC shall be useful more

bad people who have CC are sort of doomed in someways I mean getting old creatures will be difficult. Also this is sort of like a stock market crash lol

id2d • 22 April 2013 at 11:45 AM

@frosted
Did I not say that between EC and CC, CC would come out on top in my last post?

@shellby
(The staff has taken this into consideration already. Of people saying "Freezes only!" on trades. So they are talking about different ways to make it possible for everyone to get CSP items, even if they cannot buy CC.

If CC were obtainable without buying it, people would just use the alternative way always. And then just save up and save up. Then no one would ever buy CC and the site would lose income which is needed to keep the site running.)

Isn't that ^ a contradiction?

Look all I'm saying is whether CC is "giftable" or CC items are "tradeable" the economy thats hovering around CC won't really change. We might see some small changes with the new monthly cave eggs, but thats all I'm really expecting to see. As long as theres a way for people to exploit CC, be it through gifting or trading, they will.

I am glad that EC staff are trying to cut down on the scams that were taking place though.

Also again, I'm happy about this change, and think good things can and probably will come from it.

borgore • 22 April 2013 at 11:50 AM

I think this is pathetic.

People like me who can't buy CC can no longer get CC. at all.

This is highly unfair in my opinion. So, once I've spent the little CC I have it will be impossible for me to get freezes, gender changes, etc?

If this is going to be like this, then freezes, gender changes, ect should cost EC too? Not the monthlies, but the other things.

This is all because of a few people who think can't ever get CC complaining wayyyyy to much have to practically change the majority of the 'economy'?

Wow. Whatever. Another step towards a dictated site. ALL IN MY OPINION. So don't tell me I'm 'wrong'. My opinion is my opinion. Period.

starperson101 • 22 April 2013 at 12:23 PM

Wepl, guess that means ive got 400cc and have nothing to do with it seeing as i was trying to trade up to 500cc and dont use freezes or aqnything. :I

mellyottl • 22 April 2013 at 12:25 PM

[I love all the economics lessons I'm learning on this thread 😃]

Ian • 22 April 2013 at 12:28 PM

Our eldest players remember the days before CC gifting. Listen to them, as they speak great wisdom. 😋

I especially like @mairbear and @elluwah's thoughts. You have to realize that this "CaveCash gifting" feature wasn't meant to create an under-the-table trading market for CaveCash. It should have never existed. The values of CSP and non-CSP creatures alike should have never been tied to CaveCash or have an intrinsic "CaveCash value" on the markets. This gifting feature was meant to send a one-way gift to a friend, out of the goodness of your heart. Slowly, CaveCash became the unofficial "gold standard" of the markets, making players think that they NEED CaveCash to play Egg Cave (at least subconsciously). That's not how it was meant to be.

Let me reinforce this! Removing CaveCash gifting does the following (stealing from @mairbear):

1) Bolsters the purchasing power of EC and non-CSP creatures
2) Makes the free markets more fair overall and more accessible to new players
3) Restores CaveCash to its proper place
4) In it's proper place, gives CaveCash more value

Both currencies win. Do you see it?

@frosted you have consistently insinuated that these changes have been motivated by profit for the site. It's the exact opposite of what you think: EC is more valuable, CaveCash is more valuable (in it's place), and all creatures are more valuable. You're thinking of it in terms of CaveCash being the gold standard. You need to see it differently: it's not and never was.

With regards to odd CaveCash balances (incorrect multiples of the currency), we are working on a fix. Stay tuned.

cotton • 22 April 2013 at 12:35 PM

I hate to disagree, but EC will never, EVER be worth as much as CC. It's because CC is expensive and EC is free. The point of this may not be to make them equal, but it's going to take a long time for EC to even come close.

EDIT: I was here before CC gifting and EC was still not worth much and CC was still the 'gold standard'.

soapeater2 • 22 April 2013 at 12:40 PM

@mellyottl I know 😉 P.S. this is @univea on my sister's account 😊

borgore • 22 April 2013 at 12:41 PM

@Ian

Things change, and this CC 'gifting' was put in place for that, but of course, people took advantage of that. Don't you think it's a little bit too far in to take it away? (I know you already have, but still.)

I rejoined EggCave, and spent so much time trading things I never wanted to trade for CC due to this, and now it's all being reversed. My time, effort and hard work is worth nothing. And then I shall never be able to buy it and never obtain freezes again, either.

Surely CC will still have a hold, yet being unable to be traded, for example, something worth 500CC was equal to 5mil EC... people will still ask for 5mil EC, seemso its the equal, or what people will presume it to be after months and months of this CC to EC conversion.

I'm not saying taking this away was a bad thing, though it has advantages and disadvantages, but I personally think it's too far gone now, the majority of EggCave is CC based, and there is no way of getting the old EggCave back.

sstwins • 22 April 2013 at 12:42 PM

@hybridrainbow Ooo, user shops where you can sell critters and travels for EC could be great! Then you could do quick sales instead of worrying so much about trading. Then the TC could be more based towards trading creatures for creatures!
In order to do this, we would have to add some sort of a search bar for items in user shops though. 😊 It could be a drop down below the creature and user searches! It would open up a list with pics of all of the creatures/travels UFT, the user who owns them, and what their prices are!

@chloelove I SO support the games idea! I think that's what Eggcave is lacking in a little. 😉


Reading through this topic has been really interesting. I keep having mixed emotions about this whole thing, but I think I'll stick to my motto of, "Wait and see." I'm sure that all of the Eggcave staff have some great solutions for this problem, like making CC items tradeable! 😃

cotton • 22 April 2013 at 12:43 PM

By the way, according to most people, 1CC is 1 MILLION EC. So if you want 500 CC, you need 500 million EC.

Note: I think they're insane. ;p

borgore • 22 April 2013 at 12:45 PM

@cotton

1CC used to be worth 10k, but I get what you mean. 😋

It'll still effect everything, won't it? People will base CC values and just equal them in EC, am I right or wrong?

cotton • 22 April 2013 at 12:49 PM

@borgore I think they'll still want CC. There's not much you can do with EC.

borgore • 22 April 2013 at 12:50 PM

@cotton

Exactly.

EC is free and CC costs money.

If the value of CC will go down, shouldn't the price?

Meteoroid • 22 April 2013 at 12:52 PM

@cotton
Which is one of the reasons why we wish to focus a lot of effort on the Egg Coin aspect this year. We acknowledge that there is currently very little to do with EC and we also understand that not everyone has time to Feed creatures (even though this is an Adoptables website first and foremost). This is all a work in progress and we value each and every opinion.

cotton • 22 April 2013 at 1:04 PM

@Meteoroid I'm glad you guys are working on it. I wasn't intentionally being rude or anything, I just think it'll be hard to get the EC/CC ratio back to what it was. 😊

april__ • 22 April 2013 at 1:12 PM

This site needs the CC to keep going.

I don't think the prices will be lowered. I think CC creatures will still have value relatively the same. And even if it goes dow, I don't see the big deal. If I buy the creatures for 500CC now, I'll continue to do so. I buy creatures I like. Not to have value.

I think this is a good thing. I'm looking forward to seeing the impact this has.

Meteoroid • 22 April 2013 at 1:22 PM

@cotton
It's absolutely alright. Before this was posted, we fully expected that that there would be an 100% chance of some users being opposed to the removal of this feature. People were going to be mad, and some are, but it's something to be expected for an update as controversial as this.

Is it going to be hard? Of course it will. Something as complex as an economy, in real life or a simulation, will never be fixed in a single day. Keep in mind that the information everyone sees right now is subject to change and improvement. We're not gonna say, "Ha, well, CC is getting out of hand. Time to shut this thing down out of spite" and leave it like that. Following this change will be future updates to accommodate it; more accessible ways to obtain Freezes, more ways to spend EC, etc.

There is no catering to a 'vocal minority' as some users are suggesting. CaveCash was being abused much, much more often than some users would like to believe. By some simply posting, "This website is dead to me now, time to pack up and leave" or something similar along those lines, we are not receiving any input on what we might be able to do to help improve Egg Cave. Community feedback is invaluable to a socialized website such as Egg Cave and we take it very seriously.