The Official Species Rerelease Discussion

netherling • 2 August 2015 at 2:06 AM

@newlife
That's happened to me a lot in this discussion xD I have to go back and find stuff.

But yeah, only to those while the cave commons aren't since they don't cost money.

And it's so ugh Dx I'd like to not get my hopes up on a creature then it be gone when I click "adopt" or however that works

poptarts • 2 August 2015 at 2:36 PM

@veritaspunk Ooh I must of over looked the idea about loyalty points X3 I really like that Idea also though I am quiet fine with either loyalty points or raffles.

~~~~

They should make another poll with all the ideas mentioned in this topic to see what idea that people are most fond of.

immortalraven • 2 August 2015 at 3:39 PM

Yeah a poll with all the ideas would be cool though all the info would need to be stated with them so people know what it all entails. Or options with how it's preferred like there are different parts to em and some may not be liked and such.

netherling • 2 August 2015 at 4:18 PM

@poptarts

One thing with the loyalty points tho, and this is to everyone, if older users have more loyalty points and they get to rereleased creatures easier (or however that goes) the users who are newer would still have a smaller chance of getting them in comparison. I like the raffle better because with those everyone is equal. Besides in money. I think a raffle should be as equal as it can possibly get. No one has an advantage over the other. You pay a certain amount and you're chances are as equal as the next guy's. I also like the idea of the lottery, I dont know if you know about that though o.o

Ian • 2 August 2015 at 4:19 PM

Thank you all for your patience as I've been considering everybody's opinions on this topic.

On retired forever

As we have considered rereleasing Cash Shop monthly creatures more, a few users have pointed out that the words retire forever appear in our Cash Shop.

It is very important to me and the staff that Egg Cave's word is trustworthy and honest. Players buy monthly creatures for a number of reasons, like because it's cute, and one of those reasons has been buy this now because it's never coming back too. That's a part of the creature's value: there's only a limited amount of them available.

As I have considered this wordage more, I do see that it's important to leave previously-released Cash Shop Park creatures sold under these words as retired. And to keep our promise... retired forever. You've bought a physical product for real money and that's what you expected when you bought it.

Now... you may be thinking... does that mean Ian's throwing out the idea of rereleases altogether? Well, no, I would still like to consider previously-released Cave monthlies because they were released for free in the Cave and were available to everybody. Cave creatures must remain subject to the gameplay and I'd like to take a deeper look at that idea.

On the idea of rereleases

There seems to be a bit of an overreaction to my initial idea. It seems like, for those who are opposed to the idea of rereleases, that you're thinking we're considering injecting an uncapped amount of LE species back into the system. This is not the case. Some of these assumptions seem tied to what happened back for Christmas 2011. To outline the idea a bit more, here are the differences between Christmas 2011 and what we're considering now. The Christmas 2011 fiasco was bad because:

1. It was an unexpected economic event that came as a surprise to our players. Users hadn't thought an economic event like this could occur. We should have announced something before an event like this occurred, especially since this was the first time.

2. The amount of creatures that were rereleased was not controlled; an uncapped amount of creatures was rereleased. The amount should have been capped.

3. Back in 2011, in general, it was just out of character for a site event. We had never done anything like this before.

Here's how rereleases today would look different:

1. Users would know that economic events like this could occur at random times.

2. We would take into careful consideration, for the species being rereleased, the (1) active player base, (2) the number of alive creatures for that species, (3) the percentage of which these LE creatures exist on inactive accounts, (4) the percentage of which these LE creatures exist on active but non-trading accounts, and (5) current market values, as defined by active players.

3. Based on this data, the amount of creatures rereleased would be capped and rereleases would have lengthy time periods between rereleases (if there was even more than 1). I'm talking... like a year minimum.

4. Rereleases would occur as site events that require something like a quest or contest of some sort. No Cave-bashing allowed to get these creatures. Rereleases would not be everybody can get one but everybody has a shot (a percentage chance) at obtaining one. This is the biggest misunderstanding of my idea I'm seeing throughout this topic. The idea of "oh no, hand outs will mess everything up!" is silly to me. No hand outs.

For the three points I've listed here, please note that they are ideas and thinking-out-loud suggestions; they are NOT set in stone so please don't quote me on them or hold them over my head until I die! I thought I would outline the internal workings of how rereleases could work in one specific way since some think we're considering letting an uncapped amount of LE species wild. No.

On the new versus the old

An us-versus-them mentality has kind of crept in this discussion around the idea of getting a hand out from rereleases.

From what I've heard from people who are in support of limited rereleases, I'm hearing that We want a shot at having a dreamie creature but going from Garguaith to Onny just isn't possible. But what I think those who oppose rereleases are hearing is We want these creatures to have lesser rarity so I can have one too. But that's not what people are really saying, are they?

For those newer players who want more of a shot at older, rarer creatures you need to know that you'll definitely have to work for them and that they will not be handed to you. I don't really think anybody on the supporting side of rereleases really thinks that they would be a free hand out though. I thought I should say that so the opposing side can see the difference.

What people are asking for isn't lesser rarity but more access and chances to rarer creatures. Put simply, with only ~25% of Egg Cave's species physically obtainable these rares are not accessible. This is the problem we're trying to solve. Rereleases aren't a hand out nor would they ever occur in copious amounts as that would destroy creature rarities altogether.

On account purging

I am very against account purging. Sites who redistribute the assets of purged accounts are often more SIM-based games with a staff who actively manages a very controlled economy. Egg Cave's economy is free and open.

Inactive users who have beautiful Coves should be allowed the opportunity to return if they wish.

My Favorite Ideas So Far

My favorite ideas so far for Cave monthly rereleases are (1) a loyalty program that rewards account age and is capped at 1 creature (this is controlled and values aren't subject to bursts) and (2) multi-tier item quests that require you to collect for a chance at a Cave monthly.

Let's continue the discussion. Please keep things civil and intelligent.

iceiceice • 2 August 2015 at 4:33 PM

So, if account purging for inactive accounts is most likely not implemented, what about people who deleted their account along with their creatures? I think something should happen to them...

Also, if I understand correctly, CC creatures will not be rereleased, but rereleases for cave creatures are being considered as rewards?

Can we also clarify the what cave monthlies refer to?

Also, still in for more events and raffles. Loyalty program is something we can consider too. I like the idea that newlife had for them. 😋

poptarts • 2 August 2015 at 4:35 PM

@ami_utsukushii

You do make a good point because your right everyone should have an equal chance to win. But isn't a lottery the same thing as a raffle in a way? Any who if they do go towards raffles they should make it every beginning of the month and have it end at the end of the month 😸 I am honestly quiet neutral on the idea of re-release, I just like throwing in small opinions. Though after reading your statement I do agree that the raffle is quiet fairer than the loyalty system though there will be people who will disagree. I feel like no matter what gets done there will still be people who will be unhappy with what direction eggcave decides to take.

newlife • 2 August 2015 at 4:43 PM

@Ian

I'm curious about the 'Cave monthly re-release'

This does include creatures that are found in the cave or from events correct?

fakeworld • 2 August 2015 at 4:52 PM

@Ian
If implemented, would the multi-tier item quests that requires users to collect be infused in events that already take place, or will they have their own?

netherling • 2 August 2015 at 5:29 PM

@poptarts
The lottery idea is probably a little bit of a long shot. Just a little. It was suggested that every user buys a ticket, guesses five numbers, and at the end of the month the numbers are revealed. The prize is told before the lottery starts so you know what you're trying to win OR you pick the creature you want if you win. The five numbers you guess are within 1-100. Something like that

maleficent • 2 August 2015 at 5:36 PM

@Ian

I do hope if this happens and the loyalty system was use then account linking would happen. For those of us who have been here for practically the whole time but simply moved to a different main. I have my older account of course. Liked this name better.

Also, how would the Cave Creatures that were sold in the Cash Shop be handled? Since they were released first in the Cave would that take precedent since the Cash Shop was a last resort?

I ask these question knowing full well re-releasing may or may not happen. Also play knowing very well that all my creatures could be turned to frogs does not matter what I paid since the creatures are not under my rights 😊 It's the caveat of it .

poptarts • 2 August 2015 at 5:46 PM

@ami_utsukushii

I feel like the only problem with that is what if a large sum of people won the lottery then a good amount of the retired creatures would be released causing their values to be affected.

despair • 2 August 2015 at 5:46 PM

@Ian

Let me ask you a question.

About the cave creature comment, what about cave creatures that use the same slogan? I'm glad you've decided to stick to what Eggcave said on the topic of re-releasing CSP but, and forgive me if I interpreted this incorrectly, but the main reason you're not re-releasing CSPs is because they cost money and you believe that they have the right to what they purchased. (If that makes sense)

As I said though, even though cave creatures are free, what about those that use the same slogan? Wouldn't you want Eggcave to stick to that too?

Example:

The Science and Research Center in Ark City has announced a new event that they're calling Creature Release Week. It begins this Monday, April 26. All the creatures will be available to all in the Egg Cave. 7 new creatures. Only available for one week.


Creature Release Week is now over with! All of the Creature Release Week creatures (including the Cash Shop Park ones) have been retired forever. Thank you to ALL who participated and enjoyed our new creatures.

iceiceice • 2 August 2015 at 5:50 PM

If the loyalty system was to be used, I don't think they should be based on account age because of the reasons maleficent mentioned, but how much you contributed to EggCave, as newlife suggested.

maleficent • 2 August 2015 at 5:55 PM

@despair

Yep, exactly why I asked that too.

rosaline_kaye • 2 August 2015 at 6:40 PM

Thank you for keeping to your word.

elf • 2 August 2015 at 8:00 PM

@iceiceice
I agree 😊 How many hours you've actually been active makes much more of a difference then when your account was created.

scorch_cloud222 • 2 August 2015 at 8:05 PM

I'm a little upset about this. Because a few people have decided that they want to concentrate on semantics, CashShop creatures now have no chance of re-release? The poll states that only 14% of those polled want a cave-only re-release, and yet suddenly that's the only option on the table, aside from no re-release?

despair • 2 August 2015 at 8:17 PM

@scorch_cloud222

That isn't necessarily true.

Future CSP creatures have a chance as long as they don't use the slogan.

veritaspunk • 2 August 2015 at 8:18 PM

@scorch_cloud222

It's the entitlement of being first I guess ... the game is played one way for the "elite elders" and another way for the "underclass" ... it;s about first come first serve rather than well balanced game play ...

Economy is number 1 not strategy/game ...


I'm going to consider alternatives to my online recreation ...

scorch_cloud222 • 2 August 2015 at 8:24 PM

@Despair

...for the sake of politeness and civility, I'm going to politely request that you don't ping me again. I feel the same way as @veritaspunk. Most of the creatures that people want re-released are CSP, so excluding them from the idea would be nothing more than a token gesture to appease everyone.

despair • 2 August 2015 at 8:29 PM

Understood, no hard feelings.

I came here with the intentions of expressing my personal opinions, knowing there would people would disagree.

Again, no hard feelings towards anybody but I'm going to say what I believe in.

netherling • 2 August 2015 at 8:30 PM

@veritaspunk @scorch_cloud222 @despair @maleficent @iceiceice

The main reason I think most wanted rereleases of all creatures is because the prices are so high that no one thinks its logical to get one. And as for the cave creatures, just let them come out and don't question it. That's the middle ground >.< and the loyalty thing is pretty much just like what's going on now. Older>Newer. Make it equal, make it fair. Older users already have more, dont make it glare brighter than it already does guys.

veritaspunk • 2 August 2015 at 8:30 PM

@scorch_cloud222

...even with the cave creatures it seems like a lot of hoops to go through and too uhmm .. paltry ... it's just seems like it favors one group over the other, and this is an adoptable site ... strategy and game play really isn't the main focus .. it's adopting those pixels and waiting for them to appreciate like stocks ... up up up ... not like real stocks that fluctuate ...

but yeah ..

I'll have to further set realistic goals based on the sustaining limitations ... when this game err adoptable site is more like a chore than fun it's time for further internal reflection... at the least

promise • 2 August 2015 at 8:50 PM

I think it would be possible to rerelease any creature as long as it is done correctly.

scorch_cloud222 • 2 August 2015 at 8:53 PM

@Ian

I understand that you want to find a solution that will make the most users happy, but eliminating the option to re-release CSP creatures is not the way to do it. Here is why:

The people arguing the "you gave your word" aspect are the same people who want no re-releases at all. They won't be happy if you re-release at all.

The people arguing for re-releases want CSP releases, too, so they won't be happy either.

Going by the poll, you'll make approximately 86% of people unhappy with that decision.

Also, when the CSP first opened, I would bet that you never thought about what "gone forever" would mean ten years down the road. I might even wager that you never thought you would get this far. But thinking ten years into the future, it's likely that the number of old retired "gone forever" CSP creatures active in the economy will dwindle to zero if you don't re-release them at all. Then no one will be happy.

veritaspunk • 2 August 2015 at 9:01 PM

@scorch_cloud222

Pandoras box has been opened, it's a rock and a hard place for Ian...

I guess we were just too late to the party the first couple of years .. I'd say many of "us" didn't even know what egg cave was much less have the choice to join ...

iceiceice • 2 August 2015 at 9:03 PM

Take this as a facetious remark, but double jeopardy? 😋 😋

I still would like a chance of those critters that are not "physically obtainable" and "not accessible." 😱

despair • 2 August 2015 at 9:04 PM

@Ian

I also forgot to comment on how I really like this point:

"...those reasons has been buy this now because it's never coming back too. That's a part of the creature's value: there's only a limited amount of them available."

That was part of the appeal to purchase the creature in the first place, I agree.

maleficent • 2 August 2015 at 9:14 PM

@ami_utsukushii

My posts have all been in favor and very aware of the reasons why. I like any one else on a gamesite will worry about the logistics on a site I play on or ask questions as needed 😊

Nothing is set in stone so questions are good!